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-   -   Coldplay (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=32576)

POS Industries 12-30-2008 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archbio (Post 878852)
It also created Ice Ice Baby, so the blade cuts both ways.

Well, evolving an artform is always a communal, societal effort. Just look at the key word there: Stop, collaborate, and listen.

That's how Ice was back with his brand new invention.

Professor Smarmiarty 12-30-2008 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archbio (Post 878852)
It also created Ice Ice Baby, so the blade cuts both ways.

Well there's sampling and then's theres just reproducing a whole song.

Mondt 12-30-2008 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guyy (Post 878869)
No, I mean that plus all the sections of both songs that no one is talking about (choruses of Coldplay song plus most of the song after the first chorus, second 75% of Satriani's song), which are not similar in the slightest. The parts of both songs that are similar are not only very simple, but as I already pointed out, have been done before Satriani or Coldplay used them.

You could steal a single riff from Metallica and they would be up in arms.

You don't have to steal a whole song to plagiarize it. It's plagiarizing to copy a single sentence without referencing it in a paper, why isn't music the same?

That's just it, it is.

Lumenskir 12-30-2008 02:29 AM

Quote:

You don't have to steal a whole song to plagiarize it. It's plagiarizing to copy a single sentence without referencing it in a paper, why isn't music the same?

That's just it, it is.
Except for when it isn't.

Marelo 12-30-2008 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondt (Post 878896)
You could steal a single riff from Metallica and they would be up in arms.

You don't have to steal a whole song to plagiarize it. It's plagiarizing to copy a single sentence without referencing it in a paper, why isn't music the same?

That's just it, it is.

It's not plagiarism if the artist had no idea they were the same. It's entirely possible that Coldplay simply didn't realize how similar the two songs were.

TheSparrow 12-30-2008 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krylo (Post 878842)
I'd just like to point out that sampling music from others used to be common practice in music, and actually created multiple entire genres and subcultures of music.

So in so much as, you know, fuck Coldplay, I hope they win this one. I'd really like to see sampling parts (and especially merely replaying the same notes with the same, or even different, instruments) of songs like that to be unregulated by copyright law.

All artists that sample have to credit the song they sample and pay a fee or royalties...or get sued into oblivion (See KMFDM, re: The original 'Naive' album and Biz Markie, re: "I need a haircut")

And sampling or not, you're taking someone elses idea and making money off of it. Even if its only a small bit of it.

Mondt 12-30-2008 03:07 AM

its possible and the chord progression doesn't really bother me but the melody does.

They are terribly similar.

guyy 12-30-2008 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondt (Post 878896)
You don't have to steal a whole song to plagiarize it. It's plagiarizing to copy a single sentence without referencing it in a paper, why isn't music the same?

It is the same, but this is more like using the same 2 or 3 words in a row that someone else used, and getting complaints from them even though lots of other people used that phrase before either of you, and it isn't a particularly creative phrase anyway. I didn't even mention plagiarism there; I was just contradicting this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondt (Post 878830)
Don't you mean exactly the same except for the fills that Satriani has inbetween the accented notes?'

Edit: Again, yes, the melody is very similar in some places, but also extremely simple. Is it really so surprising that, out of the millions of pop songs made in the past few years, one of them ended up using the same 3-note riff, along with a similar background melody because it's one of the few background melodies (of such extreme simplicity) that goes well with that riff? Music isn't random; certain sounds go well together, but most don't.

TheSparrow 12-30-2008 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guyy (Post 878913)


Edit: Again, yes, the melody is very similar in some places, but also extremely simple. Is it really so surprising that, out of the millions of pop songs made in the past few years, one of them ended up using the same 3-note riff, along with a similar background melody because it's one of the few background melodies (of such extreme simplicity) that goes well with that riff? Music isn't random; certain sounds go well together, but most don't.

The problem is that not only is the chord progression that the coldplay song seems based on nearly the same as the Satriani chorus, but added the fact that the tempo and meter are basically the same too, and it you can see where it looks like it may very well have been stolen. I am not saying it was, but there is certainly enough similarity that it warrants a look.

Krylo 12-30-2008 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSparrow (Post 878909)
All artists that sample have to credit the song they sample and pay a fee or royalties...or get sued into oblivion (See KMFDM, re: The original 'Naive' album and Biz Markie, re: "I need a haircut")

And sampling or not, you're taking someone elses idea and making money off of it. Even if its only a small bit of it.

Except that's actually not what happened at all with the Amen Break. In fact it was sped up slightly and copyrighted by an entirely different entity than the original copyright holder, meaning it is owned by at least two different legal entities, one a company one a person.

Also, that was not always the case, nor should it be the case now (though it is).

Did you watch the video? Because you should.

Taking someone else's idea and making money/popularity/whatever else off of it is pretty much how our entire artistic culture evolved.


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