Seeds
 

They're the key element of Montaso's plot for world domination.

In another thread recently Fifthfiend made this sarcastic joke about his "recurring fantasies I have where I'm some sort of "citizen" living in a "democracy", and not a subject of an authoritarian dictatorship." but really, it's no joke. A nation in which citizens made the rules, or even had any kind of way of limiting the powers their asshole elites had over them, wouldn't allow this shit, but it's happening and I don't expect Obama (or any other Democrat) to stop it. (Just like I don't expect them to stop killing Iraqis.)

That is really crazy. In student congress a couple years back we had a guy come up with something similar. He was talking about the splicing of scorpion DNA into certain vegetables, causing them to swell and look more wholesome. I never really checked his facts on that one, but after reading that link on the Daily KOS, I think there may have been some truth to it.

Big farming has never really been an issue for me, considering I have lived in Urban to suburban areas for the entiredy of my life. I walk into Walmart, and there is the food all nice and shiny and ready for me to eat.

I don't think that the people of our country have no power to stop these kind of things from happening, I just think that they become so apathetic towards such issues that they just stop being issues. People get used to the fact that they are being shit on and simply close their eyes.

So what power is it that they have? What power is it that you, or I, personally, have to do anything about this?

I'm going to answer my own question and say basically zero. If we were in a position to quit our jobs yet somehow support ourselves financially as we launched our crusade to reform how agriculture is handled in America, we could, after years of effort, build a movement big enough that the FDA might be obligated to formally tell us to fuck off. If we got maybe a little bigger than that, then we might convince the corporately owned broadcast and print media to run dishonest stories painting us as crackpots (which because Equal Time is for Fascists, we'd have zero right to respond to anywhere in those same channels). Apathy horseshit, show me where any given person is supposed to be able to accomplish anything with any amount of effort without being steamrolled by one or another tool of elite power and then we can talk about apathy. People get used to being shit on because they have no not-getting-shit-on options, and then whenever any one of them gathers up the temerity to point that out, a dozen people being shit on just as much turn around and tell them it's their fault for being an attractive place for the people who rule us to shit.

This is exactly what a lot of people said before the French revolution too. And the Russian revolution. And the (English) Civil war.
As the key force of production workers do have the power but an individual worker does not by himself and it would be a completely disjointed political system if one guy could make vast sweeping changes for himself.
But to make changes you have to get people together, you have to organise, you have to march. Most people are in unions, just get the unions together and you have most of the countries workforce.
If you want to live in a democracy you have rights and responsibilities and if you are not going to do anything about bad situations then you don't have the right to change.
You say news shows won't cover you but if you get enough people they will. They'll have to otherwise they'll look even more ridiculous than they already do. Or you know, call in small media outlets, call in foreign media. A man on a crusade being oppressed by the big American news media? I guarantee you foreign media would flock to that.
The problem is that the American public is apathetic. It's the same reason that your political system is so corrupt and so non-representative. How do I know this? Because there are plenty of other countries in the world where there was similar levels of corruption and bias in the media (look at Italy under Berlusconi) and the public went Fuck this and marched and rioted and changed things.
As for "we can't support ourselves if we strike" that is not true. The American populace is the richest in the world. If everybody else in the world can support themselves on strikes you certainly can. YOu just need to get over the vast overconsumption and gluttony that plagues the country. If those people in Zimbabwe who still had reasonable jobs could strike on them then Americans certainly can.
It's no use just saying "We can't do anything, they're too big and strong, let's give up and cry".

Also the problem for most people with "Equal Time" is not that its for facists but that's its completely unworkable. There are a million different views to every issue and you could never cover a single issue on the news on any single day let alone providing an overview of all the issues of the day. Unless, of course, you are going to have some person sitting around deciding which are the "most important" sides of any issue and well you've defeated the purpose then haven't you. If you can provide a way to run an "Equal time" system I would curious to hear about it because I haven't encountered a plausiable way to do it yet.

Barrel, don't comment on American politics if you don't know the first thing about them.

I don't go into the threads about Canada and pop off like I have the first clue what I'm talking about and if anyone ever cared enough to do a thread on how New Zealand runs I'd show you the same courtesy so how about you do the same for us?

Yeah that didn't come out right at all.
What I meant was that how the rest of the world does it is through unionised groups. Once you have these it is easy. America is underunionised but how exactly do you explain under-union representation if not apathy?
I've heard arguments before that there is union discrimination in America which dissuades people joining but that only happens with mass apathy as a root cause. If people all join the union anyway such things are pretty easy to stop.
There are some other arguments I've heard for under-union representation include economic rationalist arguments which I have no time for and some based in the lateness of civil rights movements (whereas Europe, for example, unionised its workers much earlier) but these arguments wouldn't hold if everyone woke up tommorow and decided to join the union. It's apathy plain and simple.

And where are these personal attacks coming from? I have done post-graduate papers on the formation of the American political system and the educational systems of America in the late 20th century and know more about the American political system than your average person especially one who has been through the American educational system which is roundly denounced for its shallow covering of its own countries politics. Is this relevent? No but I don't see the need for such snippiness either.
I misspoke and I should have proof read my passage. You can certainly call me on it but there is no need for personal attacks.

Let's stop this talk about unions. It's not like they are the only way of chaging things. In fact, in some countries even some of the unions are corrupt. There are more ways to organize besides unions and more that connects people besides their work. If there is no organization to suit your goals, form one.

Let's throw aside what country one is in, let's forget what is different in all of our various political systems and focus on what is not so different. There's corruption everywhere, including the goverment and local goverments. Everywhere companies have more power than individuals. The bigger the company the bigger their influence. Everywhere most of those making decisions and "representing the people" are middle-aged, if not rich then certainly not poor, people who represent THEIR people with THEIR agenda.

There is also apathy everywhere. Nobody can deny that after reading about some decision or law etc. that made you angry we haven't actually gone out and even tried to do anything about it. Why? As said, sometimes we have become too acustomed to our own apathy. In addition, if we think that there is nothing we can really do about it then it doesn't really matter wether that is true or not. Personally I have always felt that sure I could go out and protest but would that really change anything?

Maybe we need to know more about things, maybe we need to unite more and let everyone know just how bad somethings are and what to do about them. But how? That's exactly the problem.

That being said, I am just a few "drops" away from going out and protesting against all the shit going on today. I have things fairly good, as most of us do. (For now atleast.) So the incentive to actually go do something more than be angry by yourself or with friends about anything that doesn't affect you then and there or somehow lower yourlifestyle is small. To go up against a corporation for example while being afraid of losing it all or gaining it all, would you?

What I'm trying to say is: Why risk what you already have if what you have is "enough".

But then again, that is a form of apathy, isn't it? Why should "enough" be enough. Why should you settle for all the bad things just because some things are good. I'm not just talking about the economy here.

Be it either way, I believe that people can change things. But it might take a lot, it might take all you have. And how many of us are actually prepared for that? We have a nice warm cup of good stuff and it takes a lot for that cup to actually overflow. But it will at some point if nothing changes and instead continues 'bad'. That's what happened in Greece for example.

These are hard questions. I hope you get what I'm trying to say here. I always feel like I'm a bit confusing when I write long posts.

Bottom line, I'm just as lost with what I should do as everyone else is.

As a guy who has written his congressmen more than once, I can say the disparity of power is obvious. I like Obey a lot and he's never failed to send me a letter saying he's heard my side of the argument (form letter, of course), but it really brings to light how little power I have as an individual. I have to rely on a person in office to be both honest and hopefully influential to have my voice heard, and frankly heard over big business. And Lord knows big biz is doing everything they can to screw the little guy, what with this, Orphaned Works, and God knows how much other crap.

Well we could always blow shit up, I mean it seems to be a good way to deal with these issues if other posters are to be believed:
I mean, I'd just like to point out here that those were all very specifically cases in which people had zero legal power and were, therefore, driven to actual acts of violence and war, and, I'm not, necessarily, going to say one way or the other whether we are at that point due to seeds yet*. I'm not even going to say one way or the other whether we actually have the power to change things--your arguments on unions have flaws (they work for whoever gives them the highest dues, so the people lower on the totem pole, who need the most help, get none but still pay dues, which are also a greater economic burden for them, but I'm not YET jaded enough to lose all hope in the legal system. I will say, however, that they aren't very good examples for the point you seem to have been attempting to make, Barrel.

*Though if anyone wants to get together for a bomb making seminar in St. Louis, let me know.

The point Fifth is trying to make is this corporation has enough resources to essentially sacrifice tons of them because later on they'll be a monopoly and can do whatever the hell they like. It's like playing chess with infinite money and the other guy has three rows of queens. He can just meatgrind you into submission whatever you do unless you upend the board.

In addition to having utter economic control over us, the government is tag teaming with them. So they're backed by the police and by their money.

Now, see, the counter to this is radical action, except we are really apathetic due to media being forced down our throats at every opportunity.

Honestly? Wait for America to collapse. Can't be long now.

Edit: Also let me know too. People doing shit? Good in my book.