The Warring States of NPF

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Kage_Kurisu 12-19-2008 10:02 AM

Thought about plot...
 
Why do developers not seem to know the difference between plot and dialogue? As far as I know, the three facets of storytelling are:

Story - The Overall concept, heroes and villains, motivations, eg:
Setting: Aftermath of Nuclear War
Hero: Survivor (Player)
Villain: War profiteer
Motivations: Hero - Survival
Villain - Money

Plot - What happens, eg
Intro:Nuclear Holocaust
Level 1: entrance(z) seals behind player, player has (weapon A), (num)enemies of type (x) enter through entrance (y). After battle entrance (y) opens

Dialogue - What is said, eg
Level 1 closing
Survivor B: Glad someone else survived that mess. You OK?
Player: What do you think? Course not!

Why is it that developers think the latter is even required in some situations where plot could be used effectively. (EG Resident Evil 1: Scene where Jill is saved by Barry would have worked better minus the dialogue [jill sandwich...])

Can you think of other situations where dialogue could have been removed to make the scene invoke the emotion required as opposed to being Narm? E.g. Devil May Cry with the funeral scene for Trish: Remove the "I should have been the one to fill your dark soul with light" line, and the scene would have been quite sad.

Also, will you let me know if my knowledge of the facets of storytelling is faulty? I'm not an English Lit Major...

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk 12-19-2008 10:48 AM

Well, let's get the obvious one out of the way to start with; Metal Gear Solid. Most of it.

There, now that's done we can move on.

On DMC, I don't think they should remove anything. DMC wouldn't be the same without the cheesily awful dialogue. And anyway, it's Capcom, it's not like they could remove it if they tried. I can't think of a Capcom game that doesn't have awful dialogue.

Jagos 12-19-2008 10:54 AM

Mega Man 2, when they cared about action.

Fifthfiend 12-19-2008 11:58 AM

99% of Travis Touchdown's lines in No More Heroes should have been replaced with "I'm a rockabilly badass, fuck you!"

Kage_Kurisu 12-19-2008 02:03 PM

On the examples I provided, I am aware that the lines are household jokes now, but think of when the game first came out. The first time you see the funeral scene was supposed to be heart-breaking. Putting memes aside, is what I'm getting at. You know, if the plot of the scenes were identical but the dialogue being gone makes it more poignant.

Regulus Tera 12-19-2008 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk (Post 875468)
On DMC, I don't think they should remove anything. DMC wouldn't be the same without the cheesily awful dialogue. And anyway, it's Capcom, it's not like they could remove it if they tried. I can't think of a Capcom game that doesn't have awful dialogue.

Ace Attorney series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend (Post 875490)
99% of Travis Touchdown's lines in No More Heroes should have been replaced with "I'm a rockabilly badass, fuck you!"


Mirai Gen 12-19-2008 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kage_Kurisu (Post 875460)
Can you think of other situations where dialogue could have been removed to make the scene invoke the emotion required as opposed to being Narm? E.g. Devil May Cry with the funeral scene for Trish: Remove the "I should have been the one to fill your dark soul with light" line, and the scene would have been quite sad.

Pretty much.

The most obvious perpetrator of awful dialog is MK V DC, my personal favorite being Jax standing at a computer trying to reprogram a warp system and talking out loud about everything that he's doing, like it's some sort of TV cooking show.

It's like christ, give me thirty seconds and I could whip up something a million times better than that.

BitVyper 12-19-2008 05:55 PM

Quote:

DMC wouldn't be the same without the cheesily awful dialogue.
It would be better. I hate the DMC dialogue with a burning passion. It's one thing for a character to have lines so awful they're awesome, but with DMC they're just trying too hard

Mirai Gen 12-19-2008 06:08 PM

Being fair, DMC had so-bad-it's-bad dialog, while DMC3 had YES-WE-KNOW-IT'S-BAD-SO-WE'RE-GOING-TO-DIAL-IT-UP-EVEN-HARDER. The intense cheese factor throughout 3 coupled well with how the developers just didn't take the game seriously (Which was sorely lacking in DMC4). I mean, the entire 'running down the Teme-ni-gru before getting swallowed by a demon whale' thing alone.

So you can't say they didn't learn their lesson.

BitVyper 12-19-2008 06:11 PM

Quote:

YES-WE-KNOW-IT'S-BAD-SO-WE'RE-GOING-TO-DIAL-IT-UP-EVEN-HARDER
Which made it worse. Dante needs to run into Lu Tze or something. THAT would be fun.

Quote:

So you can't say they didn't learn their lesson.
I'd like their next lesson to be how to write.

Quote:

Travis Touchdown
See, now THAT was bad-good.


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