Agreed... unless a character wears a man-bikini, in which case man-bikini automatically loses.

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Although really, Kuja loses in any case, since any man running around in a thong, obsessed with blowing up the universe, clearly has mental problems and unresolved personal issues which it would be child's play for Vader to exploit with his Jedi mind-tricks.

Hell, forget the mind tricks, Kuja'd take one look at the big scary man dressed in black and he'd curl up into the fetal position and start calling Vader 'Daddy'.

Sephiroth vs. Kuja

battle of the powerful-yet-girly FF bosses!

[edit] fifthfiend is right, power is useless without the mental strength to control it, and with so many personal issues they would get pwned by Vader.

Dragonsbane, I wouldn't even go that far... I'd give Sephiroth credit for being able to resist Vader's mind-powers. He's a crazy evil fuck, but he's focused, plus I give his evil plans credit for at least being logical. Sephiroth just wants power, it just happens to be that he's willing to wipe out all human life to get it.

Kuja, on the other hand... well, that 'destroying the whole universe' deal just reeks of angsty adolescent bullshit. Not to mention the guy's indecisive, he can't make up his mind what his evil scheme is. "I'm working for Garland! I hate Garland because he never loved me and I'm going to betray him! No, wait, I hate everybody and everything and I'm going to destroy the whole universe including myself because nobody loves me WAAAAH!" And the man-bikini just screams of all manner of personality conflicts, the guy just doesn't know who he's trying to be. That sort of inner confusion would be easy prey for any halfway clever evil bastard with a decently strong force of will. Force mental powers just seal the deal.

One final argument against Kuja -- if he's fighting Vader tranced, then Vader would probably himself be able to figure out how to trance (given as pretty much everybody in FFIX can do so), and a Tranced Sith Lord... shit, that's like John Holmes on Viagra, there would be no stopping him.

Sephiroth has Oedipus complex, he's in love with Jenova. And that hair reeks of angsty punk teen.....not to mention his weird taste in clothing. Vader would just have to do the force-hypnosis thing

Vader:"HOO-PAH! (Vader breathing sound) Jenova has told me that you must kill yourself to truly become a god"
Sephiroth: "Did she really?"
Vader: "Your lack of faith in your mother disturbs me!"
Sephiroth: "No! I believe you! Tell mommy I'm coming!"
*Sephiroth goes to kill himself, Vader's victory music (the Imperial March) plays*

What exactly did Trancing do again? My memory must be faulty, I should remember this....

Trancing gave you a cool glow, sometimes a cool look, and a lot of power (either by increasing your stats or increasing your stats and changing one of your abilities into suped up version of it).

then Vader would own Sephiroth/Kuja even more.

Trancing sounds awesome!:D

He's working for Garland because Garland created him, and, in the beginning, had the power to destroy him (because of the battleship invincible). Kuja thought that if he became powerful enough to defeat Garland then he would be powerful enough to survive anything/live forever. However, when he found out that, even after Garland was dead, he would die because he had a limited life span (much like the black mages he created) he decided that if HE couldn't exist, then NOTHING could exist. If he was undeserving of life, then there was nothing in the universe that was.

Basically, he was an egomaniac who found out he was going to die and had the power to take the universe with him, because he's so much better than anything else in it... so... why should it be around if he can't?

As for the outfit, beyond being obsessed with immortality and power, he was also obsessed with beauty, and, well, he was a very pretty man. Just admit it and move on.

Yes. Kuja did have mental problems (in the propensity that egomania is a mental problem), but I don't see how anyone would be able to use ones that add up to, "I'm the best damn thing in all of existence and nothing deserves to live but me... and if I can't, then NOTHING can." against them.

Just because YOU couldn't understand his motives doesn't mean that the rest of us can't make sense out of them.

Except Kuja wouldn't need to trance, and Vader's trance wouldn't be as powerful as Kuja's.

A trance is powered by the power of souls, Kuja used all the souls of Terra to power his trance. Further, the race that Kuja is (I can't remember what they were called off the top of my head) had FAR more powerful trances than humans... compare Trance Kuja (ability to use ultima and destroy cities with wild abandon) and Trance Zidane (damn near as powerful as trance Kuja) with Trance Vivi (he can cast TWO spells now), or Trance Steiner (his attack power doubles) or trance Eiko (double white magic).

And, not only that, but Steiner, in the beginning, says that he'd never seen it before and that only certain individuals could unlock the trance. Only your main party could do it naturally, and Kuja tapped into extra soul power to do it himself.

And besides, even if you are going to go the route of trancing adding onto/multiplying your base power with anyone able to do it (which it clearly isn't if you pay attention to game mechanics/the story), Vader STILL doesn't stand a chance. Bahamut was capable of blasting multiple ships into dust with one fireball. Kuja took that straight on and didn't even feel it. He just realized Bahamut had drawn blood a minute later. So his trance would STILL be stronger... and even without Trance it's doubtful Vader could even hurt him.

So... basically, Vader can't trance, and even if he could there's two seperate, and potent, reasons that Vader wouldn't be as powerful as Kuja. AND, even if Vader could trance, he couldn't hurt Kuja.

ego is even easier to manipulate, and there is NO way you can deny Kuja's mental instability.

Haven't you been listening, Krylo? Vader would use the Force and manipulate Kuja's poor, broken mind. It doesn't matter how powerful Kuja is, he still loses.

Kuja's mind isn't broken. He was just pissed off because he had to die.

He has an ego problem... so does vader, and the emperor. I don't see them being easy to manipulate.

And Vader has NO way to hurt Kuja. Even IF he manipulated his mind he could hack away at Kuja with a lightsaber all day and Kuja would just get sunburned. And there's no way that he can be forced to kill himself if you actually look at his motivations.

and he was so pissed off he wanted to destroy the world? You're grasping at straws, there....


Vader didn't have an ego, he didn't need one, he was too cool to be arrogant about it, since he was all about being the biggest badass Sith Lord in the history of Badassitude AND the history of Sithlords.

He could tell Kuja about how the jedi become part of the force when they die, about how some ancient Sith came back as immortal spirits after death, then convince him with his mind-bending Force powers.