The Warring States of NPF

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Fifthfiend 02-18-2009 12:46 PM

Photography "Ban"?
 
I found this interesting.

No Photo Ban in Subways, Yet an Arrest

Quote:

In the map of New York’s most forsaken places, it would be hard to top the Freeman Street stop on the No. 2 line in the Bronx, late on a February afternoon. Around 4:30 last Thursday, Robert Taylor stood on the station’s elevated platform, taking a picture of a train.

“A few buildings in place,” he noted. “Nice little cloud cover overhead. I usually use them as wallpaper on my computer.”

Finished with his camera, Mr. Taylor, 30, was about to board the train when a police officer called to him. He stepped back from the train.

“The cop wanted my ID, and I showed it to him,” Mr. Taylor said. “He told me I couldn’t take the pictures. I told him that’s not true, that the rules permitted it. He said I was wrong. I said, ‘I’m willing to bet your paycheck.’ ”

Mr. Taylor was right. The officer was enforcing a nonexistent rule. And if recent experience is any guide, one paycheck won’t come close to covering what a wrongful arrest in this kind of case could cost the taxpayers.

Twice in the last five years, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority proposed a ban on photography in the subways as an antiterrorism measure. And in 2007, the city proposed severe restrictions on filming in the city streets, but retreated when visual artists and activists gathered 26,000 signatures on petitions of opposition within a few weeks.

Both times that the transportation authority tried to ban photography, it, too, dropped the idea because of opposition. Even so, people taking pictures in the subways are regularly stopped by the police and asked to let the officers see their images or to delete them.

“They don’t have to do that, and it’s completely unlawful to ask them to delete them,” said Chris Dunn, a lawyer with the New York Civil Liberties Union. “But it comes with the explicit or implicit threat of arrest. It’s a constant problem.”

Mr. Taylor — a college student and an employee of a transportation agency that he did not want to identify — said he had been stopped before when taking pictures, but without problems.

Not this time.

“I said, ‘According to the rules of conduct, we are allowed to take pictures,’ ” Mr. Taylor said. “I showed him the rules — they’re bookmarked on my BlackBerry.”

Rule 1050.9 (c) of the state code says, “Photography, filming or video recording in any facility or conveyance is permitted except that ancillary equipment such as lights, reflectors or tripods may not be used.”

Then a police sergeant arrived.

“He tells me that their rules and the transit rules are different,” Mr. Taylor said. “I tell him, ‘If you feel I’m wrong, give me a summons and I’ll see everyone in court.’ The sergeant told them to arrest me.”

In handcuffs, Mr. Taylor was delivered to the Transit District 12 police station, and a warrant check was run. “They were citing 9/11,” said Mr. Taylor, whose encounter was described on a blog by the photographer Carlos Miller. “Of course, 9/11 is serious. I said: ‘Let’s be real. We’re in the Bronx on the 2 train. Let’s be for real here. Come on.’ ”

Before he was uncuffed, he got a batch of summonses.

The first was for “taking photos from the s/b plat of incoming outgoing trains without authority to do so,” abbreviating “southbound platform.” It cited Rule 1050.9 (c).

The second was for disorderly conduct, which consisted of addressing the officers in an “unreasonable voice.”

And the third was for “impeding traffic” — on a platform that is about 10,000 square feet. “I don’t know if you can impede traffic with 15 people per hour coming on the station,” Mr. Taylor said.


LAST year, the city settled a lawsuit with a medical student who was using his vacation to photograph every subway stop. He got through five before an officer handcuffed him and detained him for about 20 minutes. With legal fees, the cost to the city was $31,501 — more than $1,500 a minute.

In the case of Mr. Taylor, the “officers misinterpreted the rules concerning photography,” said Paul J. Browne, the Police Department’s chief spokesman. “The Transit Adjudication Board is being notified that summons was issued in error, resulting in its dismissal.”

However, the police will press on with charges of impeding traffic and unreasonable noise, Mr. Browne said.

For his part, Mr. Taylor said he was late meeting his girlfriend: “It wasn’t a pleasant sight. I said, ‘I’ll make it up to you.’ What else could I say?”

Thanks to the police, they might end up with more than a nice dinner or two — at taxpayer expense.

E-mail: dwyer@nytimes.com
You get the same thing at train stations where I am too; BART police will stop you and tell you you're not allowed to photograph stations even though there is no such rule and (IIRC) BART's website specifically states that there is no such rule saying you can't. (If you're taking photos for commercial purposes, with lights and a tripod and all that, then yeah you have to get a permit.) And it's not the first time I've read news stories about this sort of thing either.

I found it interesting for a lot of reasons; for starters there's the willingness of police and security law to act in an illegal way when the law isn't to their liking. Also there's the citation of 9-11, I dunno if anyone else ever read Catch-22 but it really recalled the ending of that book for me. And of course there's the bit where they're continuing to charge this man for crimes which apparently amount to hurting the officer's feelings and making him look stupid, as I've read more about these kind of power-abuse occurences it's amazing how often these charges get tacked on, I guess apparently just out of the officer's need to pretend his target actually did something wrong.

Anyway there's all kinds of free-speech issues and police power issues and that sort of thing which is the kind of thing people seem to like talking about here so I thought I would bring it up.

stefan 02-18-2009 12:57 PM

for some reason I really want to say this has something to do with the fiasco of the kid getting shot by a BART security officer and it getting caught an about half a dozen cameras, but it says right there in the article that this predates that incident, so it seems like just some utterly ridiculous attempt at enforcing something for the sake of enforcing something.

Bells 02-18-2009 01:12 PM

acting like that they are just asking from protests to be made... tons of art students, photograpers, movie-makers, everybody.. just go to these subway stations in bulk and Photograph the hell out of it... that'll be a nice mess.

I mean, it just show how unprepared these officers are. Even if someone wanted to take pictures of the subway for devious reason (let alone the fact that you can just google them...) why would they pose as tourists? Any cellphone can snap pictures now, it's easy as hell to do it without being noticed. They are enforcing a non-existing rule, that, even if it existed, wouldnt be effective...

Toast 02-18-2009 01:16 PM

My dad, who is a professional/amateur photographer of firetrucks, has run into this 'no photos because of 9/11' thing before when trying to take pictures of fire apparatus at military bases and airports. It's a pretty ridiculous stance to take even if there were an imminent terrorist threat.

Mirai Gen 02-18-2009 06:38 PM

Quote:

“I said, ‘According to the rules of conduct, we are allowed to take pictures,’ ” Mr. Taylor said. “I showed him the rules — they’re bookmarked on my BlackBerry.”
Okay now I'm not saying that the policeman was warranted, but oh god, burn.

I mean seriously want to talk like looking like an idiot? "Here, I got the rules of this subway right here. Let me scroll down...ahah! See? I can take pictures, that's right on the website. Not illegal, Mr. Lawsie Upholderpants."

Having said thus, this is getting out of hand. I am reminded of the signature that Fifth had for a while - Whenever someone does something, they are resisting arrest, regardless of if they are resisting arrest or not. Its like resisting arrest is just a flimsy nonsense-law you can throw on there if you don't like the person. What ever happened to planted evidence and all the good stuff like that?

There's also the fact that officers far too often are getting pulled into good old Blackguard syndrome - I'm so used to being right, I am completely incapable of being presented with the fact that I'm wrong! It happens with senior police more often than not (in my experience anyway).

Meister 02-19-2009 04:31 AM

Quote:

I mean seriously want to talk like looking like an idiot? "Here, I got the rules of this subway right here. Let me scroll down...ahah! See? I can take pictures, that's right on the website. Not illegal, Mr. Lawsie Upholderpants."
It's better than just doing everything the man in the uniform tells you to do. Especially when the man in the uniform obviously either doesn't know the laws he's enforcing or makes up his own.

Kim 02-19-2009 04:48 AM

Were you resisting arrest?

Well, I guess, technically... I was showing the police officer that he was mistaken about the rules, and thus couldn't arrest me.

Lady Cygnet 02-19-2009 12:26 PM

I suspect that these "rules" are being enforced just in case another subway rent-a-cop gets a wild hair and decides to shoot a restrained guy in the back. No photographic evidence means the next guy can get off.

ETA: So it says that it predates the BART incident. Well, the media can say anything it likes. Unless someone goes digging, there's no way to know for sure, and it seems awfully coincidental.

If anything, the BART incident should drive home how important it is that citizens be allowed to take photographs in places where they are allowed, by law, to do so. It may not save lives, but it will do something to make cops think twice about abusing power.

Fifthfiend 02-19-2009 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Cygnet (Post 898379)
I suspect that these "rules" are being enforced just in case another subway rent-a-cop gets a wild hair and decides to shoot a restrained guy in the back. No photographic evidence means the next guy can get off.

ETA: So it says that it predates the BART incident. Well, the media can say anything it likes. Unless someone goes digging, there's no way to know for sure, and it seems awfully coincidental.

If anything, the BART incident should drive home how important it is that citizens be allowed to take photographs in places where they are allowed, by law, to do so. It may not save lives, but it will do something to make cops think twice about abusing power.

Oh this sort of thing definitely predates the BART incident - I know people who've had similar run-ins with BART police themselves over the cameras in stations thing well before anyone ever heard the name Oscar Grant.

I'd still like to attribute it to fear of just the kind of accountability that cameras made possible in the case of Grant but honestly it's just as irrational on that account as it is in relation to terrorism because we live in a world where huge numbers of people have a tiny decent-quality easily hidden camera on their person at all times. If anything the animus towards people doing actual proper photography just seems like them misdirecting their anger at all the people walking around with cellcams that they can't do a ding-dang thing about no matter how much they'd like to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirai Gen (Post 898100)
I mean seriously want to talk like looking like an idiot? "Here, I got the rules of this subway right here. Let me scroll down...ahah! See? I can take pictures, that's right on the website. Not illegal, Mr. Lawsie Upholderpants."

Per Meister I mean yeah, I'm not sure what you're supposed to do when a police officer decides to arrest you for a law that doesn't exist. Personally I'd have gone with a printout instead of a Blackberry but yeah if I were any kind of photographer I'd definitely keep that with me at all times.

Mirai Gen 02-19-2009 02:08 PM

Maybe it got confused, but I meant the officer looking like an idiot.

Because --
Quote:

Personally I'd have gone with a printout instead of a Blackberry but yeah if I were any kind of photographer I'd definitely keep that with me at all times.
-- is exactly what I meant; What's better than an officer coming up and telling you you're breaking the law and you telling him no, sorry, you're wrong, and I have facts right here to prove it.


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