New new Erfworld.

I wonder what his sword actually does.

I thought Maggie made that fairly clear. It removed any inhibitions that he had regarding the brutality of war and unleashed the part of him that wanted his wargames to be real.

I just picked up Start of Darkness yesterday, and damn is it ever awesome. Redcloak reminds me of Anakin Skywalker, but with the power of good writing.

Yeah, it was also nice to see Xykon's attitude while he was human. It really solidified that he was a tried-and-true villain from the get-go, long before lichdom.

Also, heh, S-Men.

He had some really damn good lines too. His whole bit with Dorukan was awesome.

So, new OotS. Woah.

This will either cause the MitD to breakdown and change sides or essentially start killing everything.

But, (not-mirrored-yet comic spoilers) wouldn't escaping to level up be a better use of his life than charging the epic-level BBEG?

Also, is the roach ok? He should be ok, right? He's a roach; not dieing iis what they do.

The roach died so he disappeared to the lower planes. He should be back.

Just wow on the MitD... He actually has some brains to remember names. Even with the Start of Darkness, I wish I could see why exactly he is the way he is.

And O-Chul is that much more of a Badass Determinator. Bar none.

Ignore Miko because she was fucking crazy.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is a goddamn Paladin.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3...xcvum5lhb0.gif

It's amazing how O-Chul is just the perfect, perfect Paladin.

Also, I have to wonder how the Order managed to beat Xykon the first time around, given how much power he's been shown to have recently.

Lucky grapple check. Throwing people involves a grapple check, right? Alternatively, the DM messed up his grapple check math.

Plot device, if you'll recall.

It seems everyone went to the GitP forums and are checking the most recent discussion as well

*chuckles at Raiden's post*

You know now that I look back at the archives what I really wonder is why didn't they use the Disruption spell they were gonna hit him with dungeon again when they fought him in Azure City.

I also wonder at how I'm looking through GiantITP on a comic update day and the server isn't a total fuckfest. They must have finally upgraded or something.

He said that they were switching to a multi-server system, but not for a few more months. In the meantime they had to re-work something or other, but he said that wouldn't fix the speed problem.

So, maybe it's just a slow day or something.

So yeah. Some improvement, but it won't fix it.

O-CHUL TO THE RESCUE!

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8373/oots0655.gif

:O_o:

So, for those of us not in the know a la D&D, how did he survive Disintegrate? Did he just have high enough Magic Resistance or is it just a damage thing? Also, this is looking to be the beginnings of some major changes.

As far as I know Disintegrate just does damage. I think it's usually more than enough damage to kill normal humans, level 5 and lower, but past that the name becomes inaccurate, especially as you can get lucky and take half damage.

By the way, yowza.

Previous post deleted, I read the description wrong. Disintegrate does a lot of damage but allows for a Fortitude save that drops the damage way down. O-Chul must've made his. Not really surprising both by the game rules and from in-comic evidence, Paladins get good Fort saves and O-Chul has proved to be exceptionally tough.

This wound is symbolic, people.

And he's ridiculously tough. According to Hinjo he's the toughest of all the paladins, he survived the explosion in the castle and was thrown at least a mile and survived. Then he did the acid tank shark thing. O-Chul is badass.

Holy shit, he has Xykon's phlactery now too and seems to know it. Not only is Xykon without his right-hand man, but O-Chul now has a huge bargaining chip in his hands. It seems all the other bad guys (Jirix and Tsukiko) have left the room too. I definitely was not expecting this.

Perfectly summed up.

I mean you've got a damn intelligent Paladin move, (Although the problem is Xykon's still alive, even without his phlactery, if I remember right) V about one or two hits away from negative HP, and...O-Chuul is friggen awesome.

I really can't add right now to the conversation except to say:

Damn. Rich is getting into his stride again.

Disintergrate is not a particularly powerful spell. One would assume OChul passed the saving throw but even if he failed a disintergrate would be unlikely to kill h im with full hitpoints.

Also even if he destroys the phlactery Zykon is still alive and can make another one. They need to find a way to kill him first so possessing the phlactery is not that important.

Isn't it better that O-Chul has the phylactery and Xykon lives, than Red Cloak having the phylactery and having Xykon die (again)?

I'm pretty sure "bargaining chip" is not part of the Paladin's vocabulary.

...plus, Xykon would just fry anyone who tried to pull something like that.

He has before.

Start of Darkness:

He called Redcloak's bluff when Redcloak said he'd destroy the phylactery. He already knows if he's not in there, it won't harm him.

What may cause him to pause is if he's near death and really can't make another one. Somehow, as it's set up, I don't think he can.

I'm glad you guys started talking about the phylactery. I misread the art and thought O-Chul was holding on to Redcloak's eye. That was gross.

Plus, making a phylactery takes a few months (by the written rules, at least). Xykon would be pretty vulnerable. And, of course, preoccupied with making a new phylactery.

I love how OotS is always so unpredictable. In this situation both destroying the phylactery and using it to blackmail Xykon have their theoretical advantages, but the best course of action depends on a number of factors we couldn't possibly predict. Not that the theoretical best course of action is necessarily even the one any character will be taking at any given point.

Define irony at the fact that Redcloak lost his eye like his brother...

Define irony at the fact that Redcloak lost his right eye.

I don't think that's what irony is, guys.

It's a reference, maybe symbolic, but not ironic.

He could always cast Regenerate and have his eye regrown. It's only a Cleric 7 spell (so Red Cloak would have to be a level 13 Cleric which I am pretty sure he is by this point). Plus I haven't read Start of Darkness or anything but I wonder where Red Cloak's "Word of Recall" spell took him?

He can cast it, it was actually mentioned in SoD.

X, not Z. Zs are for sissies, in Xykon's own words.

Yeah, it's the same in OotS. That's how long the first one took.

It really is, actually, just not if you have lots of hit points and a good Fort save. O-Chuul happens to have plentiful amounts of both.


If what I think is going to happen, V might actually get out of this one alive.

There needs to be a word for this particular kind of not-ironic symbolism. I'd swear there's one already and I just can't remember what the fuck it is.

I can't remember because I know it isn't 100% that way in book-based DND - it might be for just Redcloak or something - but is his unholy symbol a prerequisite for casting most spells?

At the very least I think Meister can answer this one for me, he's got a better grapple 3.5e on rules than me (And a fresh memory of OOTS too).

Start of Darkness:

His brother lost his right eye to Paladins. Redcloak killed him to protect Xykon.

Redcloak might just remember his brother because of the injury and that's an entire bag of worms in itself. And even then, Xykon is in the middle of it. not the eye loss, but the betrayal of blood for a liege.

Iunno, I saw it as ironic more or less because of his brother and the karmic backlash that was coming up for this.

Let me reiterate. O-chul is what we call a paladin. It does my heart good to see that.

It's a component in a lot of cleric spells, yeah. I think it's called Divine Focus or something. However, I'm pretty sure you can make a crude symbol out of nearly anything in a pinch (this is why Christianity uses the cross. It's a really easy symbol for clerics to make on the fly so they aren't running around without powers).

*picks up two sticks and ties them together* Boom! Back in action!

Birds of various types are popular too, because even if you have no materials on hand, you can always whip out shadow puppetry, so long as the spell doesn't require somatic components. There'd be a lot of bunnies too, but no god who's had a bunny for his holy symbol has ever been taken seriously.

If Redcloak's holy symbol is specifically Xykon's phylactery, he's currently pretty screwed. I think that's unlikely, though - for one thing, Xykon is powerful, but definitely not a god. More likely they used a holy symbol as phylactery, and they're fairly easy to replace.

I really need to get my hands on those books...

Well whether it is or is not, he thinks its his phylactery, what I want to know is why he thinks that. I cant recall that information ever being disclosed to him

incidently, what exactly does he mean "scry-n-die tactics"

I think it has more to do with "blast anything that moves until it's dead"

And V was kinda known for being... boisterous with spells.

Hell, if you saw how Xykon handle Dorukan you can understand why he wants to hurt V.

This actually just occurred to me, but he was paralyzed in the throne room at the end of War and XPs when Soon Kim and Xykon had the discussion about how Soon can kill Xykon and then instruct the first paladin to destroy the Goblin's holy symbol he was carrying.

It isn't an exact quote but that was a very nice touch that only hit me just now.

God damn, Burlew, stop making me jealous.

EDIT: That Improved Initiative is coming in handy!

Scry-and-die: You use scrying spells to spy on your target, prepare accordingly, teleport directly to it and blast away, ideally the scrying gives you all the edge you need. And it might have if V hadn't skipped the scrying part. Xykon is giving him more credit here than he deserves.

He spent several months making it into his phylactery while trapped underground. And then Redcloak threatened him with it later.

He knows it's his phylactery.

Only if O Chul actually escapes with it. I don't think he can replace it unless it's destroyed. Otherwise, it's pretty much going to be the same situation as Start of Darkness. "Go ahead and destroy it. That is, if you can before I snap your neck." Although with Xykon's high level spells depleted, O Chul might actually have that one in a million chance here (it'd be much better if he were fully equipped). Unfortunately; one in a million chances are for PCs.

No, I meant Redcloak would be pretty screwed, depending on where he recalled himself. And I think Aerozord was talking about O-Chul. :p

Blah blah blah

Look, I can't be bothered with actually knowing what you people are talking about. I'm important. I do important things. I can't waste all my time figuring out what I'm actually responding to.

You're cute when you lie.

The holy symbol is a divine focus so is necessary for a lot of cleric spells but si also fairly easy to replace. It needs to be a symbol of whatever god you worship so unless Redcloak gets his spells from Xykon he's not in much trouble.

The whole reason this is going on is because Xykon is too busy with V. Sure, he might feel something once O-Chul destroys the phylactery, but it's a perfect opportunity.

O-Chul has the phylactery. O-Chul is a fairly hardy paladin. Xykon is damaged and without a healer AND doesn't seem to know O-Chul's there.

O-Chul is also completely unarmored, using an improvised weapon, and doesn't have the fort save to reliably resist paralysing touch, which is an innate Lich ability - if a Lich touches you, you take cold damage and roll a fort save.

let me check to make sure I understand the situation. If O-Chul does destroy the phylactery, that has no effect beyond making Xykon vulnerable to perma-death

That is correct. If you kill a lich and he has no phlactery he dies permanently.
If you kill a lich then destroy his phylactery within some amount of time ( I think it few days) when he reforms his body lich is also dead forever.
If you just destroy his phylactery he is still alive and can make a new one but it takes some time and also some XP.
So they will still need to kill him.

wait, then doesn't that make V an idiot? Even if Xykon was killed he'd just come back

Well V was probably assuming she could find Zykon's phlactery soon after he died with her magical powers. There are plenty of spells one can use depending on how well the phlactery is magically hidden.
For a wizard of V's former power finding and destroying a phlactery before a lich can regenerate should be pretty trivial.

Does this mean it's likely V is currently paralized?

You know, this would be a good time for the resistance groups to make an appearance.

Though, that would probably be too convenient.

I'm going to back 01d by saying that in 3.5, at higher levels, equipment is absolutely everything.

He just got the surprise against Redcloak with a Smite Evil and - most likely! - a critical hit.

Maybe he is secretely a monk with a vow of poverty.... What a twist!

Oh hell yes. And that's not even counting what you can do with cheese. Keen kaorti resin great scimitar = 15+ crit for 4x damage. Give that to a high level fighter, and watch almost everything without massive damage reduction die inside a round.

That wouldn't actually be TOO much of a surprise, given the eastern theme, and that, if I recall correctly, Miko seemed to have a monk level or two.

Miko was also one of the most powerful paladins in the order, most likely due to that monk level set.
Which is exactly why a properly-equipped paladin is far different from a bruised and battered prisoner with a broken length of metal.

Well, given that Miko was pretty much brought up in the order, it seems likely that their soldiers at least have monk training as an option. I would bet on at least a portion of their full blown paladins having started with monk levels before the twelve gods chose them.

Also: And O Chul isn't up there with her?

She said she was picked to be a paladin from the monestary, meaning I don't think it was a part of the Order at all, in fact it might have been civilian-level. That's just my interpretation.

For different reasons, though, as he's incredibly tough whereas Miko is viciously damaging. They are, however, in similar rank, yes.

He's also quite a bit more resourceful, it seems. And toughness like his pretty much necessitates a pretty high level. What's the maximum number of dice for fall damage again?

I dunno. It could be, or it could just be a separate part of the military. Either way, if they're scouting paladins there, the effect is the same.

Not to mention less of a self-righteous douche.

Well yes, also since someone was wondering if O Chul knows about the phylactery, it seems like a pretty good bet. He was standing just off panel (paralyzed) when Soon's ghost said what it was out loud.

Right here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0462.html

Beat you to it, actually, and Meister mentioned it a few minutes later.

I do have to wonder what's caused this collective resonance of remembering among everyone, though, seems odd we'd never remember it a minute ago, now everyone seems to agree.

20d6? Which could be anywhere above 60, to 120ish. If he was level 15 with a high CON (let's say, 20) he could probably take all of that and still be at positive hit points. Which is pretty impressive, but the PCs are rumored to be about that level too. Very high, yes, but not near as Xykon, and probably equal footing as Redcloak, who might be level 16.

Honestly, looking at the fact that Miko was an orphan with less social skills, it's more than likely the monk skills came from that as she was a civilian. If not, then we would have heard about other paladins and fighters that had a similar upbringing. As well, it seems Shinjo may have picked her personally because of her skills.

With O-Chul being a fighter before, it kind of goes more towards the fact that the Sapphire Guard is hand picked for paladinhood.

Plus he was right next to a pretty massive explosion, so probably tack another 60 or so onto that, as there's no way he could have made his save, and that explosion was far bigger than any fireball we've seen in the comic. 15 sounds about right for O Chul, in any case.

As for the PCs, I'm figuring 16-18 right now, so I pretty much agree with you there.

Go to hell. :)

I could've sworn the PCs were around 13-14, 15 at most.

Oh good point! I hadn't thought of that. I'm starting to think less that O-Chuul survived the explosion and more that it was more story-inclined for him to, regardless of DND rules.

Having said thus he's still a tough mother fucker.

Before and around the time the whole Azure City thing was happening, I'd have said around there. Now I'm figuring 16 or so. 18 was probably a bit high for me to estimate, otherwise Durkon could probably just True Ressurect Roy then.

Well, lets see, the easiest way to figure it out would probably be using V, only I kinda think he's probably a level lower than the others at this point. Especially since he's probably spent a shitload of xp making spells to try and find the others.

What's the highest level spell he's cast? He's got at least four or five sixth level spells per day, considering how much he tosses Disintegrate around.