Ah actually now that I remember Dorukan created the headband that could cast Cloister, the same one Xykon used right at the end of War and XPs. It is reliable to say that yeah, whole party is same level or thereabouts.

And I thought I was on the edge of my seat waiting for this one.

... realistically O-Chul still doesn't stand much of a chance, but according to the unwritten rules of drama, whatever he does next just has to have some kind of long-term impact.

And at some point they describe him as epic. At work and can't archive run :(

But yeah, even with Xykon's hardcoreness, an epic level paladin is pretty tough for any undead. Moreso when said paladin is an outsider homebrew template, which gives him lots of magic defenses and most probably a Cha boost.

Not to mention that Xykon had already blown a boatload of spells by that point. But he always seemed to be a bit weaker than, or around the same level as the members of Soon's old group.

The only guaranteed to hit spell I remember him casting is Meteor Swarm, which still had a 50% chance to miss on Soon. The bludgeoning damage should have struck him, though.

Holy sweet mother of sheep shit, O Chul is fuckin nuts...

He's gonna throw the damn thing THERE?!

Wow, the useless fucking bird may finally be good for something.

Meteor Swarm is only a guaranteed hit if you use the denser spread. Granted, that's what Xykon generally uses, but just a minor nitpick.

If it doesn't run out on V again which is a running gag here.

I can totally imagine the bird running off with the phylactery, not destroying it but getting it away from Xykon.

Who cares if the bird plays along, I actually laughed out loud at that last panel. I like laughing. Laughing's good.

Meteor swarm is never a guaranteed hit; attacking a target directly requires a ranged touch attack. If you miss or don't try to strike a victim directly, there's a reflex save for half damage. Anyone in the aoe is gonna take at least that half damage so technically you could call that a guaranteed hit.

...I so want the bird to go along with this, JUST so I can see what would happen to the Phylactery.

What's in the phylactery anyway? his soul? His life force? Some quinessental Xylonness? Because if it holds anything that could be said to have his will...

Yeah.

Also if V seriously sends Blackwing into there I hope he knows he's about to throw another level into the pile.

My question really is, is it possible that sticking Xylon in there makes him worse?

Not really, because then killing him permanently ends him forever as opposed to just giving him a few weeks to regrow a body/find a new corpse to inhabit. Same as Lich from 8-Bit; they throw his soul into his body, "Congratulations, you've reduced me from an immortal god to merely an undead creature with complete mastery over the elements," or whatevs.

You can kill liches in either order but usually it goes lich-phylactery rather than phylactery-lich.

I mean, that's what I thought and that's why they think, obviously, and if that what they were throwing it in was something I understood, like Mt. Doom in Mordor, or a woodchipper, or something, I wouldn't ask. But who knows what happens when you throw souls into the Snarl?

The Snarl is nothing but chaos and consumption - it will shred his soul and devour it, ending him permanently, just as it did with Soon's wife, and as it will with the world if the rifts are opened.

Or so they assume. It is entirely possible that this plan will bite them in the ass somehow (if the bird goes along with it and they are not stopped).

That's just too easy. Something's gonna go wrong...

Most likely, Xykon will kill the bird - does he know finger of death? If so, the bird almost certainly ain't gonna save against it.

Well, it was a theoretical conjecture on what he could use to hit Soon.

Also I swear O-Chul dying will ruin this comic.

Too easy? You think so? I dunno. I doubt whatever's going to happen will kill Xykon, but given how much he's been owning these two so far, this pretty much falls under 'last desperate strategy'.

Ah, the last ditch "my familiar can save me" gambit. A classic strategy.
Reminds me of this one time one of my players grabbed his bat familiar and forced it under water in order to try and use it's sonar under water. Good times.

Hearing about this shit is what makes me want to start playing DnD sometime. That's awesome! XD
You say this, but you know he's going to as a catalyst for something, right?

I'm sure you're aware of this, but your players are really, really dumb.

Hahahaha, just one of them in particular. This is from the group that once spent a whole 5 hour session roleplaying out a meal in a fancy restraurant, where my only input was as the snobby waiter and some npcs at nearby tables. They tend to be quite erratic.

OH, I know. It's just that I love O-Chul and he is one of the best things about the comic atm. Roy's dead, V is dumb, Durkon is dwarfy, but O-Chul makes up for all these shortcomings.

DISCRIMINATION

RACISM

I'll have you hanged for your crimes against Dwarf kind!

No one cares about dwarves.

No one.

Ever.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/me...c-Burn_him.jpg

Did it...
Did it work?

Let's just say, no.

I remember when my old Arcane Trickster came across his familiar-to-be.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3633/duckbunny.jpg

Lord.

The duckbunny did guide him through defusing a bomb once when he was in no mental capacity to do it on his own, so everything worked out fine.

Funnily enough, guess what happened to dwarves?

What was Tsukiko's class again? Christ, I've got an awful memory, and I have trouble telling wizards from sorcerers, I know the theory, but if I see a dude slinging spells I can't tell which is which.

She's a Mystic Thurge, I think, meaning she's a Sorcerer and a Cleric and then some.

I assume these classes because she brags about her spells per day a lot (Sorcerer has more) and she's a necromancer (and Clerics make better necromancers than Druids). She has to have an arcane and divine spell-casting class to be a Mystic Thurge, so those make the most sense.

Well, that would make sense as I have never HEARD of that class, no wonder I wouldn't remember. Well, I've heard mention of it, possibly just in connection to her (I just don't know what it is).

She's also very high level, since she could cast Inflict Critical and Shout as well as a handful of other wiz/sor spells.

Tsukiko is also one of my favorite new little-seen characters, another one being Noname the Cleric.

Both of those are fourth level, so she's at least 7/7/x, being wizard/cleric/theurge. Her class gives lots of spells, but doesn't add additional spell levels- she has to level up her non prestige classes to get higher level magic.

Mystic theurge does give you additional spell levels in both your classes.
The class is here: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Mystic_Theurge

You add your mystic theurge level to say your wizard and your cleric level to work out both your caster level and your spells per day.


It's an odd class in that it initially looks broken as crap but it turns out it is actually a bit underpowered compared to even most normal prestige classes and regular characters.

To become mystic theurge you need to be able to cast 2nd levels spells arcane and divine. So shes is at least a 3/3/x- with x being theurge. Casting 4th level spells would put her at least at a 4th level theurge.

I guess I could see how your DM might rule that you get 4th level spell slots, but not 4th level spells.

It'd be kind of a dick ruling but a cleric knows all her spells automatically and a wizard can scribe new spells into their books. A sorc would be totally screwed over though.

I think it's implied and the widely accepted reading that spellcasting prestige classes get both spells per day and spells known as the base class. Otherwise going into an arcane casting prestige class with a sorcerer or duskblade would be completely useless.

See, I didn't use the SRD when I did that, I used Wizard's class page.


Does that mean a 7th level theurge would get the spells available to the arcane and divine class she's using?

This is the accepted ruling and what the classes are balanced against.
And the mystic theurge is still underpower with it.

Yes. Let's say you are a 3rd level wizard, a 3rd level cleric, a 7th level theurge.
You cast spells like a 10th level wizard and a 10th level cleric. This includes spell slots and caster level.

So wizard completely messed up on their official cast page? Nice.

Also, when compared to the regular wizard/cleric/druid shenanigans it's still perfectly effective.

Mystic Theurge gets insane levels of spellcasting capacity but cleric and wizard generally don't merge together all that well.

It's not as clearly written as it could be, but what they're actually comparing is a 9th level wizard (or cleric) to a 9th level character who casts spells equivalent to a 6th level wizard (or cleric). Note that a 3rd level wizard can't cast level 3 spells, but for a 6th level wizard it's spot on.

What Wizards really should have done is proofread and clarify that prestige class paragraph across their books. With like 95% of classes it's
but sometimes they sneak a "(and spells known, if applicable)" in there and that shit's just confusing.

Not sure what the official cast page is? If you give me link I can comment.

The real place the theurge is hurt is that he A) doesn't have the high level spells and B) Can't use his backlog of spells any faster than a normal cleric or wizard.
They still only have one action a turn and can only cast one spell and this spell will be weaker than an equivalent wizard/cleric. And as they die as fast as a wizard and much faster than a cleric the real concern of a theurge is stopping enemies in the first round or two. If they die because they didn't have the spells to drop the enemy fast then there huge backlog of spells won't help them.

The only place a theurge is really effective is when fighting lots of creatures who are lower level and fighting throughout the day, as they can keep going all day.

And as Mirai said arcane and divine generally don't mess well and usually require two completely different roles on the battlefield. And whichever role you take you will be underpowered.
Also the theurge can't really deploy a clerics spells that effectively as clerics generally need to be in the front line as A) they need to heal thier friends and B) cleric spells tend to be touch or short range. This is why clerics get armour.
A theurge can't wear armour without spellcheck penalties to his arcane and doesn't have the hitpoints or saves of a cleric. So if the theurge tries to be a frontline cleric he dies fast.

There's also the fact that most spellcasting classes need only to focus on one mental stat for their spellcasting (Int for Wizards, Wis for Clerics & Druids, Cha for Sorcs). With Mystic Theruge you now have to worry about keeping TWO mental stats high for those higher spell DCs and to gain bonus spells. This sucks not only in character creation, but also when deciding what to spend your money on and you have to decide between getting a boost to one stat over another while any straight-classed spellcaster still only really has to focus on their one stat.

And as Smarty said, even though they have more spells they still only get to use one per round in most circumstances (barring quicken feats, quicken rods, or such). When most combats come down to one round making or breaking a fight for you, you'll be wishing you had higher spell DCs and access to higher level spells versus versatility.

Odjin linked it already a few posts up - Link repasted.

I'm wondering what to do with this thread now that Giant and Erfworld are separate entities. I'm thinking "leave it how it is because fuck it".

Might be about time for a fresh one anyway.

But we're so close to 100 pages!


Anyone know what OOTS's regular update schedule is? Or if they even have one? I've been following the series lately, but never could quite figure out when they update.

"It'll be done when it's done," more or less.

Whenever someone starts talking about a new comic in this thread.

So far, this model has been 100% accurate for me.

New comic.

And this is exactly the thinking V should've used BEFORE he teleported in.

Oh that is just bloody brilliant.

This episode shows us either the Snarl has changed from it's original use or it's grown more intelligent and can cast illusions/affect people's minds.

That... That was... I love this comic.

It's the perfect ending for this arc.

I love this comic.

Can someone explain the 'What spell I cast" thing for those of us who don't play a bunch of D&D?

Explosive Runes. It's less of a pure D&D thing than one of V's personal quirks, she's done this a few times before. You write magic text, and it explodes when read.

Ahhh, I suppose I should read through the archives again. I seem to miss a lot of these little things.

Might possibly be V's favorite spell, next to Disintegrate and Invisibility.

"V, you magnificent bastard!" is what I thought when I read that. How can one guy contain so much awesome? Beating Xykon in magnificent bastardry. . . provided it beats him that is. Or at least dents him.

On top of the previous acts of genocide and all that V is quickly becoming the most polarized member of the cast; I love him and hate him more than all else. Weird.

That might be a little bit of a stretch. As always, the comic really can go in absolutely any direction right now, so there's room for an explosion followed by Xykon taking his Phlactery and going, yeah, sorry, nice try though.

Not beating him beating him, just one-upping him in badassery. Well, if Xykon knew about V's explosive runes running gag he'd he'd be so pissed at falling for it. . .

Even if the explosion doesn't in fact destroy it, it's probably going into the rift.

If nothing else it'll buy V and O-Chul some time for the Hold Person to wear off.

Hmmm... If their will power is good (don't remember if it's from INT or WIS) then they should be out before Xykon comes back.

It is from Wis - O-Chul will break free first I think, and I know Xykon's got a bitchin DC to make but I figured O-Chul would resist anyway.

It is good to see V act appropriate when he's not drunk with power.

Wizards have good will saves anyway. But even without that we're looking at 2 1/2, 3 minutes tops here, then it likely runs out on its own. (Actually, that might be longer than V has even been there. Hmmm.)

Hold Person allows a will save to get out every round. If they don't make a save, they'll be in there for at least 25 rounds.

To put that in perspective for non-D&D players: A round is six seconds. Twenty five rounds is just two and a half minutes.

Talk of hold person saves makes me long for 3rd ed where you only got one save. Oh man that was broken.
My 9th level cleric who had maximised that spell DC took out plenty of characters much higher level (including a 19th level barbarian) thanks to that little baby.

But yeah paladins have high will saves and wisdom so O Chul should break quickly and wizards have high will saves as well as V should be ok.

V's Wisdom is average.

He was paralyzed before for quite some time because his will save sucks. More than likely, O-Chul is going to be carrying him again.

Those hit by a ghast’s bite or claw attack must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds. Even elves can be affected by this paralysis. The save DC is Charisma-based.