I'm not gonna say anyone's gotta use spoiler tags for their speculations.

I mean if we wanna go down that road we may as well just start posting on the GITP forums.

(And that way lies damnation.)

But if people wanna to be extra-considerate or whatevs, I ain't tellin' nobody no.

Well, it is mentioned several times that the MITD talking is exceedingly rare for a creature of his species. Which makes his being a very young new Terrasque quite likely.
Not to mention that he has a pretty massive DR and huge strength. And what may be a Frightful Presence.

Then again, the Snarl is also masive and ate a lot. But then again, MITD's species is also known by the stereotypical hunters who captured him, and I don't think they would likely be privy to secret Sapphire Guard lore.

I was thinking it was a Nightwalker with a kid's mind or something, though checking out the MM now I'm starting to think that a CR 17 might not be scary powerful enough.

I think it'll be a published monster, but I don't think it'll be the Tarrasque. I don't think it'll have anything to do with the snarl either.

Lets see though; it's size category looks to be large, it's nigh invulnerable, almost definitely epic, intelligent, and it has yellow eyes. It's also capable of holding an umbrella. It's abilities aren't age or experience-based either, so it seems like it's probably one of the more animal-like monsters.

There's always the chance that it's just a normal animal loaded up with templates. Imagine a dire, legendary, paragon babboon. I keep picturing it as something ape-like, 'cause I get a Kong feeling from it. If not that, I'm expecting some kind of lizard.

I don't think the Snarl was ever shown to be talking. And by extension, there isn't a high probability that its fragments would be talking.

I'm not saying that my answer is correct, it could be this Tarrasque thing. I'm just saying that your statements are not excluding my guess.

Although my entire hypothesis is riding on the fact that A. the snarl is important to the story, and B. the monster not seeing the gate is something more than a running gag on its lack of perception.
This is probably the biggest argument against my theory, but considering that the snarl has to do with the state of the world, it's far from impossible that nothing about it is known to some hunter sect thing.

So yeah, there's a new Erfworld up. Though it doesn't seem to be much but further clarification of the 'Plier Powers, and confirmation of Bogroll's status as like unto Black Belt.

On the plus side, it looks like Ansom is taking Bogroll's place. Bogroll is still way better than that smarmy jerk though.

How long do wizard buffs last again? Is V still defensed up?

It hasn't been maybe 10 minutes since he fought the dragon. More than likely the buffs should still be there.

They're being cast by a 21st level plus, I'm sure they're still around.

Also its funny to glance over his 'foreshadowing' in War and XPs, talking about "what one character has to sacrifice." I'm positive he means V but I can only wonder what else he's going to sacrifice.

I guess we aren't getting Bogroll back. *Frown*

Wow, Xykon is badass.

Quite.

Also, in before the server breakdown:

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...oppyMjobAi.gif

I guess his saves didn't go up with the extra levels. Must have just gotten caster levels and spellslots.

So does Drain mean that Xykon is sucking up all the levels for himself, or just that the souls are hemorrhaging their power?

Just hemorrhaging. If he could use limited wish/wish to cast divine spells, he could even get rid of it, but his agreement won't allow that. Although he could probably wish it away anyway, but he might not even have that spell at this point.

Think of it more as adding a negative, rather than actually directly subtracting from his levels.

Edit: Seriously though; Xykon is fucking badass.

V so had this coming.

"Hey check it, I got epic level spell slots, nothing could possibly top my game now, amirite?"

EDIT: Also, how the hell does Redcloak know about Soul Splices, especially since it was so incredibly unique when the FCC set it up?

Origin of Darkness?

Yeah, I kind of figured he was getting more out of the deal than just the spell slots. Still, with the amount of power he's packing, he could have accomplished this with just the slightest bit of forethought. Go in shapechanged, or use some buffs to boost your saves/gain immunities Hell, if he (or his spliced souls) knew what one was, he could have shapechanged into a Phaerimm, which, as I recall, are BAD NEWS for primary casters.

Of course, V decided NOT to do anything like that, and is probably well on the way to destruction now.

He's a nerd. He probably read about them somewhere but didn't necessarily know about this exact soul splice. Just something similar.

Hmmm, Xykon can cast 12th level spells.

Badass.

Xykon raises an excellent point that, as usual, no one has really thought about. Also, for all you who aren't so familiar with D&D rules, the souls just dropped at least ten levels. That's really bad. If V doesn't know liches are immune to electricity it might be reasonable to assume she also doesn't know about details like a phylactery, but the way this fight is going, it looks like that's not going to be an issue anytime soon.

e: I'll just put the exact wording here:

Yeah it occurred to me after I woke up this morning that he just used a Maximized Energy Drain, IE, holy shit, he's not an 18th level sorcerer, he's like 25. (I don't have an ELHB so I don't know) No wonder V couldn't top him.

I also like the fact that Xykon is basically like, yeah, so these guys are dead souls? That means they are below me.

Specification of my theory: V and her tag-alongs lose so many levels from this fight that V has no other choice but to hold on to the splices, simply to at least remain as powerful as she was before this whole deal-with-the-devil mess started.

e: vv Hah, yeah. My own fault for listening to the low-WIS ranger.

from what they already showed it looks like as long as the spliced ones are stronger, they will be the only ones drained, not that it matters as he is reliant on them. Personally I'd prefer if Xzykon isn't just plain stronger then they are. Pushing the philosophy that, you might be level 1000, doesn't help you much if you dont have the experience and knowledge to use it to its full potential.

How much did that empowered sunburst do? I mean, Xykon is undead, so the damage was doubled. But was the 1d6 per caster level for undead creatures (which also is frankly a lot because of the soul splices) doubled? Or was it just 6d6, doubled, plus 1d6 per caster level?

And what does empower do again?

It does 1 and 1/2 times what the spell did, so if he rolled 6d6 he does 6d6 times 1.5. It should have whupped his ass for a lot of damage, but given that he was barely affected and even took a minute to mock him just because, Xykon is seriously hardcore.

This is the first time Roy's task has really ever been put into perspective.

...

Ya know, when Xykon took out the Paladins in Azure City, I was thinking... Nah... He's not that badass.

But taking on V who had immense power given to him and making him look stupid in two rounds.

That's kinda humbling...

Placing a bet he's gonna be soul binded if he doesn't escape.

Wait, wasn't the dragon going to Soul Splice V's kids to him? I thought the uniqueness of the V version was who was being spliced/the conditions.

The uniqueness of V's situation is the fact that he has multiple splices going on at once, from each of the three fiendish races' domains.

Naw, that was Soul Trap, I believe. She was going to imprison their conscious minds and souls into a permanent gem and carry them with her for all eternity to forever punish V. That's in the Player's Handbook, right in the Spells page.

EDIT: Actually now that I look she says "Bind their souls to me," so I'm not sure what she had in mind.

A soul splice is a completely different and, unless I'm mistaken, isn't even anywhere in DND. I think that it, like the Dashing Swordsman or Greater Mark of Justice, was made up because it appealed to Burlew for a plot device. It apparently entails splicing a powerful soul with a willing human to feed them incredible power, but the details are shaky because this is Burlew's invention.

She was probably just going to Magic Jar them. I think that's what the spell is called, anyway.

Grabbed my PHB. It is not Magic Jar, as that allow you to put your soul into something and go do other stuffs. Soul Bind, however, is the aforementioned spell, considering she was going to kill them by eating them and then do the spell. That means it's Soul Bind, as Trap The Soul requires a living target.

if I recall she said she found a unique spell specifically for the task. So probably something he just made up

She didn't say that.

"I will then bind their souls to me with two necromantic scrolls I have acquired for this purpose."

To someone unfamiliar with D&D, that might sound like they were unique.

D&D-style scrolls are essentially magic in a can, for those not in the know. Just add water.

New OOTS is up.

V is totally screwed.

Tsukiko's Xykon doll is equal parts disturbing and awesome.

Yes.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8219/oots0653.gif

Tsukiko is awesome. Xykon plushie! Slippers!

fakeedit: "Goblin please"!

Panel 8 reminds me of something. Also, I'm glad V appears to be keeping the new hairstyle.

I wonder how long it will take to squeeze some information out of the squishy elf wizard? Redcloak's already had plenty of practise with O-chul, and I'd be surprised if he doesn't consider that V might know something out the Gate ( sans-Splice, he might even recognise her as being part of the Order).

What do we think are the odds V says fuck it and signs on with Team Evil?

Forever, because torture doesn't work. =P

Also, I love these past few comics, as it puts the entire adventure into perspective. Before, Xykon just seemed like some joke with a moderate amount of power (just a few steps beyond Roy) who is only any real threat because Redcloak is smart. And then the Snarl came along and I'm like "oh okay that's more or less the real villain."

Now Xykon looks like he's completely out of the OotS' league.

I think V is too proud for that. Though this has got to be another kick in the balls to find out even with a soul splice, it still isn't enough
From what he said before, it sounds like in every single fight we have seen so far he has taken it easy. Either because of some twisted degree of respect for noble quests or because he is so freakin strong he can afford to fool around

Not when the victim is a paladin who doesn't actually know anything. :P

You guys think V's even gonna survive this? If Xykon doesn't off him now it'll be entirely for his own amusement, because apparently he really is strong enough to fool around. He is the kinda guy who rides a zombie dragon when he can fly.

I think the humiliation of having more actual power than Xykon and still getting completely chumped by him could leave V receptive to new ideas.

though only if V first is able to understand why he lost. So far every time he has he rationalized it was because "he didn't have enough power". I am just uncertain V is able to understand this, that shortcuts ultimately fail under someone who has legitimately earned it. Especially since that would mean he admits to a gap he cannot bridge, that people like Xzykon have a head start so massive it would take decades if not centuries to catch up and thats assuming his enemies are content with their current strength.

So either V will continue with his obsession, which I personally thought was more likely given the whole dragon thing, or will have to just accept that 'more arcane power' isn't the answer to everything, which I doubt since that is basically his life philosophy. Not saying he wont realize this just I find it less likely. Should be interesting comic reguardless

The idea that Xykon would actually let him sign on to Team Evil would surprise me.

Redcloak was at least partly willing to accept Tsukiko, but a former Order of the Stick member? He wouldn't let it get ten rounds before a Maximized Harm.


And thus ends V's life.

Maximized Harm would still do the same damage, wouldn't it?

There seems to be little reason for Team Evil to let V live, but if they recognize her they might well throw her in the cage with O-Chul for questioning. Or I suppose Redcloak might, if he can hold Xykon back long enough. I also don't think we'll see one character finally resurrected just in time for another one to die so we can follow his adventures in the afterlife for the next few years.

Xykon deflected a disintegrate, what does it take to do that?

A level in badass.I acknowledge that this isn't an actual instance of the trope. It's a joke!

Also, I don't see V joining the Evil Team, on the grounds that it just doesn't feel right for the character. Yeah, I wish I had an actual argument.

I haven't read the ELH in a while but if I remember correctly deflect ray is an epic level feat. Not to mention "Supreme Dispell" which must be an epic level spel.

was actually Superb Dispell, which sounds abit silly to me

Superb Dispelling, actually.

It's probably just his spell resistance.

Edit: Although since the sound effect actually says "deflect" it could be Deflect Ray. Although, that's kind of an odd feat for him to have, as I'm pretty sure it's prerequisites are mostly monk-ish abilities.

They are.
For some reason I thought the failed save turned it into caster level in d8s in damage. Not quite sure why. Should've gone for my original idea and said Inflict Critical.

Playing all this 4th has me confused.

Soon disagrees. If not for Miko, Xykon'd be dead.

...Deader.

Soon had the extreme advantage of being incorporeal and therefore ultra-resistant to Xykon's spells as well as being a badass.

Although I guess V will be incorporeal soon enough.

From what I've heard of the print books, Xykon has never fared that well against those heroes. Epic retired heroes are made of pure win, but they're also more or less guaranteed to never actually finish off the bad guy.

Anyway, I really didn't expect V to be beaten so badly. I didn't think he'd beat Xykon, but goddamn, he just got flattened. But then, if you go into an epic mage-duel without so much as throwing on some SR and an immunity or two, you pretty much deserve what you get.

He did have SR and preparations. His stuff from his fight with Dragonmommy was still around, if I remember rightly.

V was just way, way too cocky. He teleported in, thinking he could just waltz up and whup the crap out of Xykon. So he got sprung with a Magic Trap. He then used a useless spell against a lich, when he should have at least done some research into the matter first. Then he cast a useful spell, Empowered Sunburst, but then spent his next action casting a pretty useless Dimensional Anchor, thinking of stopping him from fleeing long before he even began to have the upper hand on the fight (V was the only one hurt at that point), not to mention that it was after he just lost like four levels permanently.

He then does things a little smarter but by that point he's already lost enough ground, Xykon can pull out whatever he wants and outdo him.

And since V is now approximately ten levels lower, he most likely can't cast any teleport spells.

V, quite simply, is screwed.

EDIT: Also I so love Tsukiko.

Granted, if it was a solo fight versus Xykon he might've had a chance. Redcloak/Tsukiko provided tactical advice and support.

And who knows how many empowered sunbursts/other suitably damaging spells V could have tossed? Since V's effective caster level was up the wazoo (having two epic spellcasters added is nice) it was 12d6+25d6 (before empowerment). Average damage would be 111 or so. Even with lich hp bonus, that's pretty damn high.

V's arrogance and general lack of wizardly behavior- he tries to out Xykon Xykon, for heaven's sake!- led to his downfall. At least he did better than Dorukan.

Yeah fundamentally with the fight V tried to employ sorcerer tactics - run into the room and start firing at will - against Xykon, a Sorcerer Lich, instead of being a wizard and preparing beforehand.

If he wasn't so worried about his debt increasing as opposed to losing his life, he might have won.

Not a whole bloody lot if anything Xykon did was still touching him. If you have the spells and caster levels of three different world shatteringly powerful epic wizards, there's you should be able to pretty much make yourself invincible (to anything not on your level, obviously). He lost the one soul, but that shouldn't have affected any buffs he'd already cast. I mean, it's either that, or Xykon has some absolutely ridiculous spell penetration going on. At the absolute minimum, V's SR would have been 75 + his own level if he'd cast it when he still had all three souls. Probably a lot higher than that though.

Edit: I'd still be in favour of shapechanging into something anti-wizard like a Phaerimm or a beholder, but obviously V wouldn't necessarily even know about the more obscure stuff like Phaerimm (which I think are Realms only anyway). Anyway, my main point is pretty much the same as yours: If he'd taken so much as a single minute to think/prepare some spells, he probably would have won. I'm of the opinion that he lost a fight where he ought to have steamrolled right over Xykon, but your mileage may vary.

Hell, knowing he was up against a necromancer, he could have just Spell Immunitied himself to energy drain. That alone could have changed things a lot. Edit: Wait no, that's cleric. Nevermind.

What really gets me is how arrogant V became thinking he could do anything he wanted because of his "ultimate" arcane power. Hell, Roy made a bad call and it got him killed. V should have learned a lot more from his example and yet he got worse, even with the ultimate arcane power.

I really hope that wherever the story goes, V takes a little more humble pie and listens when someone tells him to level up.

Good gracious, 30 minutes to get curb stomped... That MUST be a world record.

Someone's never played an epic level campaign. Epic level wizards tend to be stacked up the wazoo with temporary hitpoints as their one general weakness is living through the first round where charging fighters do hundreds of points of damage and make you fort save 6 times or die.

Hm, looking back Protection from Spells gives a bonus from spell and spell-like effects, not the SR I had initially thought.

Regardless we're agreeing anyway.

Yeah, I didn't think he'd actually cast Spell Resistance, otherwise magic would have been bouncing off him left and right.

I'm somewhere lost, the only time I talked about hitpoints was Xykon's, who's a sorcerer and while he does sometimes plan ahead his general strategy is smash people's heads in directly. He's not the kind of guy to cast protective spells on himself every day in case some wazoo teleports in and starts something. This is a man whose spells are 90% directed towards hitting people. He probably doesn't have any of those up, if he has them. And so far we've seen his magical gear include stuff that directly protects him from attacks, like the ring of resistance versus positive energy or the magical item that makes him immune to his own meteor swarms, and he wears a nonmagical crown simply because he thinks it's badass. So I don't think he has much, if any, gear devoted to it. If you were arguing Redcloak perhaps then I might agree with you, because Redcloak is like that. But I doubt Xykon is.

To be fair; that's partly because he's a Lich, which means he already HAS better immunities than a god (seriously, being undead in 3.5 is AWESOME), along with more stuff that's specific to Liches. Also he obviously has some energy immunities going on, to fire at the very least.

I've found Spell Resistance to be slightly less than useful, considering it applies a DC that most casters can succeed blindfolded, but than again it might have snagged one or two Energy Drains or any other sort of spell, so it could have done some good.

But yeah, point is its just V being all "Hah, yeah, I'm awesome, Demon Powers Activate!" and getting a spankerin' for it.

Well, that's in level-appropriate encounters, where it's just one extra chance for them to fail. When you've got something more or less quadrupling your effective caster level, it's a different story. It's the difference between a 32 DC and a 100 DC.

I'm going to believe that none of them knew the spell, or maybe Haedra did but never had a chance to cast it within the Time Stop summoned during the Dragonmommy fight.

Cause I can't see a wizard - arrogant or no - not having that spell prepared.

though as far as V knew Xzykon was lower then his effective caster level. While our Lich almost never has to worry about people with a higher effective level. For good reason apparently

I think I'm not happy with using the word "arrogant" for V in this situation. I mean, there's arrogance there in spades, for sure, but I think he rushed into the fight for two reasons: He was on a high from all the power, and he was desperately seeking opportunities to use it especially after missing two. Maybe something that would make his sacrifice "worthwhile," but maybe just because he wanted to use his full powers. It's like having a car that can break the sound barrier, but having to drive it at 50 because you're in the city. Probably the first place you'll drive it to is a track or the desert, or something like that. And if you paid your life savings to rent that car for the afternoon, you probably aren't going to want to waste much time making sure it's safe.

And you don't go to hell for quite so long. Honestly I can understand the rush...

I'm pretty sure he'd have held onto it for as long as he possibly could either way. He just wanted to use it/feel the rush as much as possible0 before it before he lost it.

Self-indulgent. Maybe that's what I'd call it.

"Yeah see, I'm not feeling it. You just don't have the 'righteous outrage' tone."

Also, by racing in the desert, you fulfill your life-long goal of beating the current land speed record.

Saving the world was just kind of sure, why not.

New Erfworld.

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/346...ij0ha3duyp.jpg