noble or famous
 

Today, I just learned that a good up-in-coming (only 27) football player Pat Tillman (I beleive that is his name) died in afganistan, but the reason that I bring this up is that he could have stayed and got 3.6mil to play football. the question is what would you give up to fight in what you believe? (honestly pleese) Is there something that you beleive in enough to give it all away? DO NOT BE A FIGHTER :fighter:

Well, a friend of mine who's in training for the Marines was offered a $3000 bonus, in return for moving up his ship date by a month and letting him go while barely missing the cut (One pull-up short) and he turned it down, saying that he'd rather train and be sure that he'll be able to make it by his appointed ship date.

He was a true patriot, and he was a Ranger, so he chose to put himself in the line of fire because he wanted to. It is for no one to question.

I'm not one who supports the war, but I do believe that our troops are doing what they think is right. When I hear about someone like this, who turned down a million dollar job, refused media attention, joined the rangers and fought... I respoect our men and women in uniform a bit more. Thank you, Pat Tillman, for your service, your bravery and your selflessness in the face of a seflish world. Thank you for showing us that true heros still exist. Thank you, and may your soul rest in piece, a job well done.

I've given up my social life to fight for what I believe in. When you actually do what's right at school, no one likes you anymore. You're no longer part of the "in" crowd if you don't lie or what-have-you. So, yes, having no social life is the consequences of fighting for what I believe in.

I think that its great that he chose to support his country in such a way, and it takes a very special breed of man to voluntier during a conflict such as this, especialy to make it into the Rangers.

however, I have a problem with the fact that he's now become the latest make-shift hero for the war. Yes, its tragic that he died at such a young age with so much of his career ahead of him, but how many of our service men and women are dieing or getting wounded because of this conflict? why should we specificaly pick him out and posthumously congradulate him, when there are many, many others who are equaly deserving of our attention?

I often wonder about the families of those who have fallen in battle. Though it may sound terrible to say, is it possible the soldier who traded his or her young life had the easiest time of it? Now, of course, how could many people not feel pride in the noble sacrifice, but do they ever curse and scream and wonder why killing some far-off people they've never met was more important than finishing college, or saying "I do"? Can the knowledge that a son or daughter perished in a noble way ever fill up the void?

I used to think that I was one of those people who would lay down her life at a moment's notice to defend certain ideals. I believe in choice, freedom, many important things, but increasingly, I am not so sure. I see the impact I have upon others. My friends, my family, complete strangers-many people have, bear with me here, been better off with my influence. Is this pure conceit? I'm actually inclined to think not. Every one of us affects so many other lives, in ways we cannot even conceive of. To be willing to lay down one's life in battle is to determine for oneself that the cause in question is so valuable, of such great worth, that it outmeasures any other value that one might have, in any other situation, at any point in time.

That is a pretty dramatic statement to make. I have the greatest respect for those who have taken stock of their lives, and are actively pursuing those ideals which mean the most to them, be it at home or abroad. I have nothing but sorrow, however, for those who do not realize the magnitude of what they are trading away until it is far, far too late to turn back.

So, is there any cause I'd die for? I guess it's a little odd, the things that make life worth living are the things worth dying for. I think about the gentle compassion and smile of the man I care for with every fiber of my being, or my four-year-old sister, playing superhero because helping people is honestly her favorite thing to do(and beating up bad guys to save kittens is fun...), and I know that I'd lay down my life in a heartbeat to save the people I love.

Humans are beings of almost infinite potential. To carelessly trade away such potential is wasteful, destructive, foolish beyond reason! But, to trade it away, that another might harness that potential...it is at least worth thinking about.

to be noble does not mean that you can't have a dout it doesnt mean that you can't have a second thought. in my opionon it means that you have calculated the risk, felt all the emotions, and still does what most people wont, that is noble.

humans are being of infinate emotions and voids, there are unfillible voids all of us have them, but it is how the void was created that affects the person with the void. it is a eazier to fill the viod of a noble soldier than a suisiding person who cant handle the emotion.

It must be weird hearing nobleness and emotion from a 13 year old

this reminds me of the time i watched Braveheart for the 3rd or 4th time. I was really struck by a scene with Robert the Bruce. lemme find it. here it is!

This is when Robert the Bruce is talking to his father (i think) the leper, after betraying William Wallace:

Leper: I'm the one who's rotting but I think your face looks graver than mine. Son, we must have alliance with England to prevail here. You achieved that. You saved your family, increased your land. In time, you will have all the power in Scotland.

Robert: Lands, titles, men, power, nothing.

Leper: Nothing?

Robert: I have nothing. Men fight for me, because if they do not, I throw them off my land and I starve their wives and their children. Those men who bled the ground red at Falkirk, they fought for William Wallace, and he fights for something that I've never had. And I took it from him when I betrayed him and I saw it in his face on the battlefield, and it's tearing me apart.

Leper: Well, all men betray. All lose heart.

Robert: I don't want to lose heart. I want to believe as he does. I will never be on the wrong side again.


I was struck by the scene when i was watching it. Because, William Walalce was a flat character. He rose up to fight because he had nothing to loose. His fight was, essentially, for vengence. Admirable? yes. But In that scene, Robert the Bruce HAD something to loose. and he gave it up when he could have kept it.. and for what? ideals.

in that respect, EVERY American soldier is the same. Every soldier has something to loose.

i think what makes Pat different is that, first of all, he's already a public figure know to us, and second, the magnitude of his wealth throws his sacrifice into shard releif. 3.6 million is a lot to all of us... but its just an example of what all the soldiers are leaving behind.

I'm not saying that pat is better their all noble but when I heard his story I had to post it, and did you hear that the Iraqi's are agery at us for the new flag they got: no opionon just a comment

I would go and fight for anybody except bush. god i hate that guy. Heck, My name "Nolan" means "Noble" in Celtic! But I dont think we should have gone to Iraq at all. bush is a dumbass and should not be re-elected

*EDIT* hehe this is the 6th page Ive started. Go me.

I just find it annoying that by spotlighting this one guy so much, that it seems to imply that the rest of the soldiers aren't risking as much. Look at the comparison,
every soldier: life
Pat Tillman: life and $3.6million

Now unless you value your life with a dollar amount, then there isn't much of a difference between what Mr. Tillman risked from any other soldier.

well here comes the media trying to make him a superman, starting with this weeks newsweek (I just got it)

Yeah, this is a problematic presentation, at best. "If he was willing to give up life and $3.6 million for his country, shouldn't you be at least willing to give up life?" What is it we, the public, are supposed to glean from all this?

If he would've survived the battle and went back to football, he would become a billionaire.

Think of it. Almost every family would say, "Look this man has sacrificed millions of dollars to protect his country! The least we could do is watch his game."

Think of the crowd he would get at his games, because he is considered a "hero."

That would be what I call "selling nobility."

I'm not saying that he's the bad man. He went off to fight, because he believed it's the right thing. Just like every other man with him on the battlefield. And for having the guts to risk your life I respect that. But it's the media that's selling his nobility by making him seem more heroic than any of those other guys that are fighting.

They're saying "he sacrificed 3.6 million dollars to protect his country." He didn't sacrifice 3.6 million dollars, he sacrificed his life to do so. Just like all the other men. So for that, he does not deserve more recognition than any of the other men.

If you mean me in anyway I think he is noble but I didn't say that everyone else isn't, and new question. Will it be blown out of preportion as much as the other one?

he doesn’t DESERVE more recognition than anyone else who decided to sign up. he GETS it because its more interesting to US.

shit, there's been stories in the local papers about locals who have died in the armed forces. And they get just as much honor as Tillman. But to the reader, it damn near baffles us when Tillman gives up what everyone in their day-to-day life is working towards. Hell, most of us can't hope to die with $3.8 million in our bank accounts, much less get that much when you're, what, 22? When that much wealth is there for the taking, and someone turns it down and goes to put his life on the line for something he just plain believes in, it turns heads. You can't argue AT ALL that Tillman was in it for the college money or because it was a better job then he had at home. To anyone who asks "why?", all the other answers dont apply to Tillman.

All the Tillman story does is illustrate the pure, crystalline conviction that is in the hearts of so many of our soldiers.

The honor that is bestowed to our soldiers is the same to all of them. But to US, us who aren't there, Tillman is the example to US. The story of Pat Tillman shows, in perfect clarity, what it is that the United States Soldier is willing to give up. The soldiers in the field, they know what they sacrifice. To those at home that don't understand, Tillman is the example to us.

Are you talking about the woman who "fought to the death", and then got captured, and "tortured" by the Iraqis?

"yea" but I'm too lazy to look it up

Well, would you risk death in another country away from your family and friends if you were presented with a multi-million dollar career, and potentially, if you were good enough, even more money? What the man did was selfless and truly heroic. Are the other soldiers heroic? Sure. But they didn't sacrifice like Tillman did.

i disagree totally that Tillman was "more heroic" then others.

read Post #7 by reality_deviant again. She does a good job of outlining the things that are sacrificed. The prices of war.

Tillman sacrificed a higher payign job? sure. but he also sacrificed his LIFE.

and his family didn't loose a $3.8 million dollar sallary... they lost a loved one. I bet they would PAY $3.8 million if it would save their loved one.

Hell, if the price of war was merely blood, then no one would care at all! But the price to us is our loved ones, our family members, our sons, our daughtes, our husbands, our friends. THAT is real lose. $3.8 million? pish. There are people like Tillman who would give up $3.8 million, and ultimately his life, for an ideal like protecting his country... so think what people would be willing to do to protect a personal loved one?

no, the family of Pat Tillamn is feeling the exact same thing as hundreds of others families. The sacrifice is the same for everyone involved.

GREAT POINTS all but I did put some questions up.