Which is why people are upset.

When it was just the Wii? Not a big deal. We could all quietly just glare at the Wii, maybe mention that the waggle controls are shitty when it was specifically brought up that they're oh so great or whatever, but for the most part? Well we still had our two consoles that didn't have shitty waggle controls.

That is no longer going to be the case.

Now there's not a market for 'different people to like different things'. There's a market for people who like flailing their arms around randomly, with the stupid controls not registering half the time because you moved too fast on the action that you only have a couple of seconds to perform, while the market for people that prefer controllers and pushing buttons--because they WORK RIGHT--no longer have a console.

P.S. Mirai--stop posting. You're going to see this shit tomorrow and be like "Jesus fuck, what was I thinking posting while I was that hammered? Did my hands turn into giant fucking hams or something? What the hell?" Just... just a friendly piece of advice.

Either that or go make a giant drunk post rant.

Fair enough but I'm half a bottle of Catp Morgan PArrot Bay in and I can still see all the godawful strawmen in Sithdart'h's posts, what with 'calling Company X evil' and all.

I'm done with the argument anyway so yah have fun gusy.

Objectively speaking if the company profits and the actions taken were legal and ethical then the decision was not bad. There has been no indication of either illegal or unethical conduct and profits have not decreased. Ergo good decisions were made.

Not at all mostly because that post in its entirety wasn't directed at anyone person, comment, or even side of the debate. Further, 90% seems high especially if you remove the objectively horrible shovelware that makes it onto any system. Further, if "casual" gamers did spend 90% of the money the deserve 90% of the attention.

I think perhaps your state of mind as left you unable to properly judge what is being said.

Which is exactly the problem I'm getting at. Running around calling something that isn't objectively horrible trash because you don't like it is insulting and aggravating to the people that do like it simply because they like different things.

So says you with no objective reasoning.

Neither are remotely close to the point and yet serve to illustrate that point being made.

I said what I said because it was necessary to frame the argument I was making. It could have been worded better though.

Not really going to argue this point because I think it is clear where it came from and why its a very bad point.

The problem here is that Nintendo knew full well after trying with the Gamecube they were never going to compete on the same turf as Sony and Microsoft. They knew they needed to do something different and motion control was a good call. As such their games would have to rely primarily on that to compete and because of the lack of pure power on the system so would any other games. It really wasn't a choice for them. It was motion control all the way or turn into Sega.

See exactly my point about you never know what is going to insult someone and how people get upset about things that aren't meant as insults. Of course responding negatively instead of trying to come to a mutual understanding is where things go really wrong. Also, I personally find the connotations that people seem to be placing on the word waggle negative and mildly insulting.

Maybe it was to you because you are just wired that way. I haven't played God Hand but I've never had a problem dodging in MadWorld not that I need to all that much. Further people rant and rave about how much better and more precise a keyboard and mouse is for FPS play. Frankly I can barely move around in WoW with a keyboard and mouse. It bears repeating that different people are different in many ways. A lot of what makes a person prefer one control style over another is linked to how they naturally think and process information.

Again I was making general blanket statements about both sides in the beginning of my post though with my obvious bias. I do believe I did point that out though probably not as well as I should have. Further, neither post was directed at any specific person. It was a general indictment of this type of discussion in general.

At this point the PS3 and XBox versions seem to be exactly what NonCon wanted from the Wii. An accessory that can be used or not as the developers see fit and a normal controller separate from that. Its should be the ideal situations. I don't think motion control will completely swamp the market to the point no one makes anything else ever. Heck the fact we still have new 2D games coming out should indicate well enough that its hard to kill the classics that work well. If anything it will force non-motion games to get better and more focused will all the usual crap gets forced over to motion control.

Calling was a bad word. Implying would have been appropriate because the implications are clearly there on both sides of the argument. Evil was possibly also too strong a word but I'm not sure of a suitable replacement.

Why should I give half a shit what Nintendo 'needs' to do to stay afloat? From the perspective of a customer, Nintendo's role is to entertain me. If they fail to do that to the degree that I expect, especially after paying for a product, I have every right to complain.

Yeah, except I never implied anything negative about casual gamers, whereas I saw several instances of people implying that hardcore gamers were a bunch of jerks who hated people with different tastes.

Has nothing to do with being wired that way. It has to do with:

1. A flick of the thumb is simpler and quicker.

2. The controller reads it quicker and more accurately than the Wii does a nunchuck flip.

3. If you didn't need to dodge often you obviously did not play the game on Hard difficulty.

If people are discussing Star Wars, it would be rather bad form of me to start bitching them out about being rude/insensitive to people who liked the new trilogy when absolutely no such discussion has been going on in the thread, don't you think?

Mirai, you're my hero.

I disagree on every single fucking thing you've said, but damn you're the best thing to come out of this thread.

Sobering up :(

Yeah, 'clearly,' except nobody took insult to anything that was said until you came along.

Oh man... i can't recall the source right now. I Know Kotaku -also- reported on it. I need to get some sleep now, but i'll get you back on that when i can recall the full source.

I do recall Marvelous Entertainment (Publishers of No More Heroes and Publisher/developer of Arc Rise Fantasia) stating that they were severely disappointed with the reception their games got on the Wii and felt that their games would be better served if offered on a HD Platform...

It's worth noting that they also have hands on Little King's Story, Rune Factory Frontier, Oboro Muramasa Yōtōden and Harvest Moon: Magical Melody. All for the Wii. So, it's a honest statement to say that it's a HUGE 3rd party loss. They delivered some really great games.

You gave meaning to this sorry excuse of a console war thread.

You deserve a fucking medal.

Just stating that I wouldn't consider myself to be a hardcore gamer - I do keep up with the news and the games, though I mostly use my excess money on booze. Which I guess makes me an alcoholic. Anyway, I'm defining myself as a casual gamer.

That being said, I don't want Virtual Reality/Motion Sensing/Whatever Else It Is. I'm perfectly happy with pushing buttons. Really, the only reason for having the controller there in the first place is to control the game. So if the controller works, why try to fix it?

And Mirai, props on being drunk. You might want to re-read your posts before you pass out to make sure they're grammatically correct, though.

Anyways, I dislike the motion controls. They're interesting - they allow for new and unique ways to control the game. However, quite literally every gamer I know bar... two or three, specifically bought other consoles because they felt that they didn't need to physically move to control their fictional people.

EDIT

See how many of these people you can find in the below links.

What The Market Feels About Motion Control
Another Audience
A Slashdot Article On The Subject

I don't know maybe because Nintendo would find it very difficult to continue to fulfill its role of entertaining you if it goes out of business. Perhaps also because it has a responsibility to the people it employs and its investors to remain profitable to honor their commitment to the company which is much greater than yours. Just saying.

Again the fact that you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there and my points weren't specifically addressed to you.

Maybe for you. I've rather messed up my left thumb so its kind of sluggish. The fine motor control in my fingers is actually a bit sluggish in general. Also, I'd wager it takes considerably less neurons and muscles to move your wrist then a single finger.

Probably true but my general ineptitude with fine motor control of my thumb more than makes up that difference.

1) Perfect example of negative connotations and implications even if you don't see it.

2) There is also the possibility I simply approach the game with a different strategy and don't mind getting slaughtered a bit while a work out my own play style.

This would be true except for the fact that it was happening in this thread. Not to the extent I made it seem but that was poor word choice on my part. Clearly I was not the only one to think so I just choose to be a bit more vocal.

Perhaps no one mentioned it but it certainly did exist as a possibility as indicated by this:

and this:

and this:

Of course those are just the more recent accessible examples there are probably others from the other side as well.

Edit: It should be pointed out that my argument actually applies more readily to Microsoft and Sony. There were a lot of negative implications being thrown around about them in terms of introducing motion control that were generally unwarranted.