The Warring States of NPF

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-   -   12 year old boy becomes girl; parents upset (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=36011)

MasterOfMagic 09-21-2009 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonCon (Post 971245)
Yeah, but she's changed her name to a girl name and is wearing girl clothes and all that, so she's taking on a female identity at an age when the external consequences of such can be hard to cope with and her options are fairly limited, as opposed to when she's an adult and she'd be better able to cope with the mistreatment and fight it.

Yeah, she can go back to wearing boy clothes and going by a boy name, but it's hardly like any of her schoolmates will forget this event.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Article
The boy, who for years has told pals he yearns to be a girl

I think its safe to say that she was having troubles with this before hand. I don't think "you'll be able to deal with it better later" is a good reason to force someone to stay repressed, even if its a 12 year old. It'll only cause different kinds of emotional scars.

Bells 09-21-2009 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfMagic (Post 971251)
I think its safe to say that she was having troubles with this before hand. I don't think "you'll be able to deal with it better later" is a good reason to force someone to stay repressed, even if its a 12 year old. It'll only cause different kinds of emotional scars.

I honestly find it hard to consider a child who probably has trouble spelling "repressed" to be ....y'know... repressed.

We all have Emotional scars, of all kinds, not really something you can avoid with a clever life plan. Still, kids whose BODIES haven't even fully developed yet should not be making life altering decisions on their own.

They don't have the critical thinking abilities to actually consider things trough, their body is not fully adjusted yet, and they simply don't posses enough knowledge, information and culture to actually evaluate their choices and it's consequences.

And if his parents are providing all the missing points, then it's not the kid's choice. Which has an even greater chance of fucking things up for the kid in the future.

All I'm saying is that kids this young should be worried about playing tag and coloring dinosaurs not picking what Sexual Organs they would rather have for the rest of their life.

Nique 09-21-2009 03:49 PM

Quote:

All I'm saying is that kids this young should be worried about playing tag and coloring dinosaurs not picking what Sexual Organs they would rather have for the rest of their life.
Figuring out exactly what you are and where you fit in is VERY important esspecially in the social atmosphere that can be basically understood simply by recieting the 'girls have cooties' mantra. Whatever level of legitimacy you assign to this paticular situation, you can't just say that not being sure whether you are a boy or a girl is not important or even that it shouldn't bve important to a child. Kid's aren't stupid, just inexpierieced. Self-identity is fragile and extremely important for them.

MasterOfMagic 09-21-2009 04:42 PM

Quote:

I honestly find it hard to consider a child who probably has trouble spelling "repressed" to be ....y'know... repressed.
That'd be understandable if being able to spell repressed had anything at all to do with the idea I was conveying. They probably wouldn't use that word if they were to describe it, no, but that doesn't mean its not what's happening.

Quote:

We all have Emotional scars, of all kinds, not really something you can avoid with a clever life plan.
No, but you can and should minimize them. Or, in this case, pick and choose which ones you want. Here, the parents decided that letting the kid be what she wants to be (or knows that she is?) and dealing with the bullying that comes with that was better than forcing the child to be what they or society (or whatever) wanted her to be.

Quote:

Still, kids whose BODIES haven't even fully developed yet should not be making life altering decisions on their own.
Some would say its not a choice you make, its who you are. I don't know myself.

pochercoaster 09-21-2009 04:46 PM

As far as I can tell these kids don't deliberately decide that they're male or female. It's something that they are simply born knowing- did anyone here wake up one day and think "Yep, I'm definitely comfortable with my gender identity." It's not something that ever passed through my mind, at least- I was born the way I am and I have never questioned it as I have always felt comfortable being the gender I am. Sexual orientation is kind of similar, although I believe it's more fluid. Again, did anyone here just wake up one day and decide that they're hetero-, homo-, or bi-sexual?

That said, why would someone intentionally go against their gender identity? A 12-year old is intelligent enough to understand that society doesn't easily accept those who deviate from the norm. Nobody wants to be perceived as a "freak." The answer is, their brains are simply wired in an anomalous way and, to them, they are not deliberately choosing to go against something which they biologically are.

Something like gender identity is very deeply rooted in your psyche. That is, a great deal of our decisions are made without us being completely aware of them. Although I cannot speak from personal experience (:P), I imagine that it is more painful for this child to go through life adhering to an identity that they feel is wrong for them, than to adhere to the identity that they feel is right for them and deal with the consequences.

Now, what's more debatable is the WAY in which this child makes their gender transition. Obviously, going right back to a school where everyone previously knew him as a "he" is not a smart move. If it was within their resources, the parents should have transferred him to another school so he could have a fresh start. That doesn't eliminate all of the difficulties, of course, but it would help.

For anyone who feels iffy about transgendered persons, I urge you to watch this documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utpam0IGYac

Rymramoch 09-21-2009 04:57 PM

Oh, hey, I had totally forgotten about that documentary. If anyone is interested/intrigued by that one you could attempt to look up the "Transgeneration" documantary put out by Logo. It can be hard to find, but I think it is totally worth a watch.

Aerozord 09-21-2009 05:07 PM

I feel I should point out there is a differance between sex and gender. Gender is man/woman boy/girl. It is a function of society, and thus yes waking up one day and going "I feel like a girl" is how it works.

Sex is a biological aspect and determined at birth. Often these are interchanged as in our society they are one in the same. A male is a man, a female is a woman.

I bring this up because just as it says this is a gender identity thing. It isn't that a person thinks they should have a vagina, its that society treats their prefferances and mannerisms to be those of a girl.

A boy that likes dresses, plays with dolls, and is sexually attracted to boys, does not to me mean he is a girl in a boys body. It just means his preferances are towards what society has assigned to girls. Its pressure of society to conform, that you should like these things and shouldn't like these other things.

Ultimately the only thing that determines sex is whether you have a penis or a vagina. I cant think of any personality trait someone might have that would dictate otherwise. Liking girly things doesn't make you female, it just means you are against the norm. Nothing wrong with that

Osterbaum 09-21-2009 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerozord
Sex is a biological aspect and determined at birth.

Determined at conception. Now, besides that different choice of words really, you are right. Sex is a biological aspect. Biology is pretty amazing, but it doesn't always go as it's supposed to. I don't see why being of a certain gender by your primary gender traits (organs, mostly) it isn't possibly to be of another gender by your secondary gender traits (everything besides your sexualorgans).

What I'm saying is: I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible for stuff to "go wrong" in a biological sense so, that you are physically a boy but mentally a girl. Being "mentally" something different than "biologically" or "physically" is a misleading way to say things. The way you think and feel is also affected by your biology; actually it IS biology.

Aerozord 09-21-2009 05:15 PM

but why, why does this boy feel he is in fact a girl? or rather, what makes this boy in fact a girl?

because I can read why he feels this way, though I dont see why that makes him a girl

pochercoaster 09-21-2009 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerozord (Post 971313)
I feel I should point out there is a differance between sex and gender. Gender is man/woman boy/girl. It is a function of society, and thus yes waking up one day and going "I feel like a girl" is how it works.

I agree with the first two sentences. I don't agree with the last, but if you want to go that way- if it is, in fact, a conscious decision, then why is it wrong for someone to decide that they are the opposite gender? It's not your or my decision to make, after all. Why does it bother people so much that someone should chose this lifestyle for themselves?

What day did you wake up and decide you were a girl? When did you decide it was better to play with trucks than barbie dolls? What criteria did you base this decision on? You probably said "I feel like a boy." That's just it- these people, for whatever reason, happen to feel differently. Why would someone deliberately chose a life of hardship for themselves?

And why the hell does it matter that he feels this way? He's not HARMING anyone.


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