The Warring States of NPF

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-   -   Bliss VERSUS Free Will (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=3966)

Krylo 05-20-2004 08:51 PM

If I was just plopped into it, again, I'd revolt. I don't want to do what my parents do with their lives. And, quite frankly, I wouldn't care if everyone kept doing what they liked. Sure, things would become a BIT more uncertain, but THEY could still do the jobs they'd been doing. They just wouldn't HAVE to. And, then, I'd start undoing the DNA bs or whatever on the next generation, so they'd actually be free.

I don't see how that would ruin their happiness... it'd just make me happy as well. And not dead in 20-40 years.

Forever Zero 05-20-2004 08:51 PM

But you also brought up the point of people having the job because their parents had it, and their parents had it, ex cetera, ex cetera, ad infinitum. I know that while I respect what my parents do (My mom is an assistant in a classroom of little kids, and my father works for a computer company), I don't want to do the exact jobs that they do, and I want to go my own way in life. So even in the case of Job by Descendent, I would disagree with it. The one I would accept I imagined as more of a "I want this job, so I get it forever" sort of scenario.

EDIT: Wait a second, where did dying in 20-40 years come into this?!

Krylo 05-20-2004 08:53 PM

Quote:

The one I would accept I imagined as more of a "I want this job, so I get it forever" sort of scenario.
I'd also accept that. You still get the freedom to do what you like, but you're guaranteed it, and guaranteed to keep it. Which is why in the first one I said it depended... but then he refined it while I was posting/watching TV into something that I'd never accept.

Well, I'd accept it if they dropped the old people death thing too...

edit:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy
When you are getting on in your years the government puts you to sleep to stop the elderly problems. Any other clarifications necessary?


Lucas 05-20-2004 08:53 PM

Quote:

As to the new scenario you put up, that is just about 100% like Brave New World, and I would oppose it with a vengence.
but how? i mean if everyone by default loves the system, then don't you too?

wait, if everyone is totally blissful, and yet know that this government is doing whatever its doing, then doesn't that mean that they've chosen to accept bliss? if so, then if i was the only person who's not blissful, how would the government deal with me?

AndyBloodredMage 05-20-2004 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me
We're taking the idea that you were just plopped down in here somehow, completely seperate from this world. You are the exact same as you are now, it is the world around you that has changed.

That answer your queston Luke my boy?

Zweihander 05-20-2004 09:02 PM

It is our free will that defines happiness. There are things that make almost everyone happy; accomplishing a big task, eating our favorite food, being with someone you love. But what causes us to like certain things over another thing? The details? What makes me feel better about becoming an Eagle Scout over graduating from high school? What makes one person prefer pizza over spaghetti? Why the hell did Rai choose Shiney?

Free will. That's why. We're free to choose our own form of happiness, and thus free to enjoy it the most we can.

Lucas 05-20-2004 09:03 PM

well, no.

-see, if everyone else is coded to be happy, then revolting is useless
-if everyone is happy because the government is doing an amazing job, then you'd be happy too, and you wouldn't revolt
-if they were gassing the population or something, then the bliss would be false, and someone who sees beyond it would probably revolt.

Forever Zero 05-20-2004 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy
When you are getting on in your years the government puts you to sleep to stop the elderly problems. Any other clarifications necessary?

Oh HELL no I wouldn't support that! That's insane! It sets a precedent for a total disregard for human life, and basically sets a state of false happiness since everyone is forced to rebel against the natural revulsion from death to simply say, "Yay, I'm 60, kill me!" I would oppose that government with a vengence.

This is all getting rather muddled... Everyone is throwing out different theories and states of existance one on top of the other.

Omega Mage Zero 05-20-2004 11:05 PM

One reason to revolt would be concern for the future of the human race. If over 99% of Humanity is composed of blissful sheep with job security, there's no impetus for improvement. Chaos and danger, while unpleasant, makes people tougher, smarter, and more creative.

The goal of humanity shouldn't be "bliss". Bliss is fleeting. Your society sounds mind-numbingly dull. No competion, no new experiences. It's stagnation. Humanity would be weakened. Suffering and strife will never be eliminated, lessened maybe, but not totally destroyed.

Lucas 05-21-2004 01:42 AM

i don't see how you're going to rally the troops for a revolt if they're all perfectly blissful. they might just shoot you and smile about it.

in this world bliss isn't fleeting. its permanent, and i dunno about dull. if i were blissful, i wouldn't feel bored. and its not like i'll be lounging in a hammock all day being blissed out either.

that said, if i were the lone non-bliss guy, i'd revolt because i'd feel lonely.


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