The Warring States of NPF

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-   -   Mass Effect 3, because we need a thread without Caps Lock (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=41440)

Osterbaum 03-21-2012 05:57 PM

Quote:

Co-Founder of Bioware takes Super Classy action to please the fans and the internet shits all over him for actually giving a damn
I'm not sure where the part about the internet shitting all over him is? Because the article itself doesn't have any comments, and I've come across no references, positive or negative, to this particular response anywhere else.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk 03-21-2012 06:04 PM

Not to sound like a "self-entitled shit", but while i'm in the thread I would like to complain about this clearly defective product that I payed £40 for. I just spent the last hour trying to play multiplayer. In 5 seperate attempts, the game either glitched out (3 times, almost in a row, leaving me jumping about all over the place, unable to climb ladders or get into cover properly, before throwing me randomly through the map), randomly diconnected (both whilst trying to join the game, while waiting for others to start (the entire room suddenly emptied despite 2 people having only just that second joined)) and once only moments after starting a match and once completely muting all sound right from the start.

And these are only the glitches I experianced in the last hour of trying to play, glitches which have been present from the demo and are still around now and which I have experianced many times.

So Bioware, whilst you're listening to constructive criticism, how about you get around to maybe fixing your damn multiplayer and making it work for once? Maybe? That'd be great thanks.

stefan 03-21-2012 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osterbaum (Post 1189752)
I'm not sure where the part about the internet shitting all over him is? Because the article itself doesn't have any comments, and I've come across no references, positive or negative, to this particular response anywhere else.

this whole claim kind of baffles me as well. I've been following this whole drama from right around when it started, and the people calling out Bioware have actually had a fairly decent level of classiness on average, with maybe the occasional outlier spewing profanity and rage.

Most of the dickishness seems to be coming from the people shouting down the first group and calling them entitled, misrepresenting them as wanting a sunshine-and-rainbows happy ending instead of merely wanting an ending that makes sense, putting forth a very, very misinformed understanding of artistic integrity and generally coming off as frothing nutcases angry that anyone would dare imply Bioware did something wrong.

Azisien 03-21-2012 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefan (Post 1189755)
this whole claim kind of baffles me as well. I've been following this whole drama from right around when it started, and the people calling out Bioware have actually had a fairly decent level of classiness on average, with maybe the occasional outlier spewing profanity and rage.

Most of the dickishness seems to be coming from the people shouting down the first group and calling them entitled, misrepresenting them as wanting a sunshine-and-rainbows happy ending instead of merely wanting an ending that makes sense, putting forth a very, very misinformed understanding of artistic integrity and generally coming off as frothing nutcases angry that anyone would dare imply Bioware did something wrong.

I dunno, I follow multiple Bioware pages (including non-ME ones) on Facebook and Twitter, and literally no matter what they post about, it's all spam along the lines of "the ending sucked" and "this is only the red version of <Bioware post in question>!" And of course, the back-and-forth arguments surrounding that.

I actually find the uproar humorous, and we have a while to see how the situation develops, but maybe some good will come out of this. And by good, I basically mean some high quality DLC that took the criticism to heart. Not really interested in seeing Bioware get sued or shut down or whatever happens with FTC/BBB/CryMoar Agency claims. I'm not optimistic enough to hope any kind of free content from this though. The empty, half-shell of a gamer I used to be has already come to the grim realization that free game content is effectively dead.

Osterbaum 03-21-2012 07:52 PM

All the complaints about the ending or the game in general I've come across have been, if not always constructive, not really all that dickish or assholish either. At worst they've seemed dissapointed. Now I'm sure some darker corners of the intrawebs have people just raging about it all not being able to act at least civil, but then again I don't really give those people a second thought. And again I haven't come across them myself.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche 03-21-2012 08:28 PM

Something I forgot to bring up here:
Quote:

After Harbinger hits you with his gallick gun and you're staggering to the beam, the Illusive Man contacts you via radio. He tells you that his experiments were a success, and he's finally figured out how to control the Reapers. You can positively or negatively, per usual. "Have a little faith, Shepard." The ground quakes, and a huge crack starts to expand. This starts to play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhtZWkNa3YU

From the rubble emerges a massive figure: It's the Reaper Larvae, completed, weaponized and outfitted in Cerberus armor. As it rises, it picks up your wounded Shepard in its hand "Care to wear the Cerberus colors one last time, Commander?" You take control of the Cerberus mech. Harbinger lowers for the last confrontation. A brutal battle ensues, but it's clear Harbinger is still winning. The Illusive Man thought it wouldn't be enough on its own, which is when he reveals the true purpose of refitting the Normandy. The SR2 swoops in and transforms into a flightpack, combining with the mech and lending it a sword.

At this point, you can choose your final attack. A LI Heartbeam, a Shepard pelvic crusher, or the Humanity Slash. Harbinger is utterly destroyed, and it turns out he controlled every Reaper. They dead now. And everyone lived happily ever after.

Osterbaum 03-21-2012 08:49 PM

the fuck is that shit

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche 03-21-2012 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osterbaum (Post 1189786)
the fuck is that shit

Ending you get if you visit Eltar and get their war assets.

Azisien 03-21-2012 09:04 PM

If there's actually any precedent (I don't think there is) re: the legal part of this, and it actually goes through, I am going to make my own game company with the millions I will get for suing Peter Molyneux for Every Single Word He's Uttered In An Interview.

Then I can just make my own space opera game with an ending I think is cool and there won't even be a problem anymore!

Solid Snake 03-21-2012 09:20 PM

Ehh.

Regarding the ME dilemma, I mean, there are good Bronies and there are crazy Bronies; there are talented Homestuck fans and there are "why the fuck does this even exist" Homestuck fans, etc.

In any movement or fanbase of sufficient size there are assholes and there are reasonable people.
I've talked in some threads with "Retake Mass Effect 3" fans who are genuinely considerate and constructive in their criticisms and who aren't so much demanding anything from Bioware as they simply wish to articulate their criticisms of the game. I've also talked in some threads with "Retake Mass Effect 3" 'fans' who simply want a happy cakes and sunshine ending, or who cuss out Casey Hudson every three words, or who believe Bioware owes them everything in existence because they purchased a $60 game. And, yes, some of the "Retake Mass Effect 3" people are really just homophobic and pissed off at the gay romance options because they're assholes.

...It's just kind of important to acknowledge the diversity before setting out in a generalized criticism, though. My major problem with journalists reporting on the phenomenon like Gamespot is their apparent inability to understand that it's not just the assholes. Like, Bioware wants to play up the most idiotic voices of criticism of their product, so then they can just dismiss all criticism and claim that everyone is homophobic, or everyone is a petulant child, and they're the reasonable folks in the room.

Personally, as someone who quite obviously hates how Bioware ended ME3, I'm actually kind of worried of what might happen if Bioware changes the ending, which is, if anything, indicative of my rather low faith of their ability to correctly discern what the critics are actually objecting to. Like, I think Bioware's going to simplify this into "Oh jeez, we'll need to provide a happy ending?" When really the vast majority of folks I've talked to, including myself, would prefer a bittersweet ending with dramatic effect.

It makes sense for Shepard to die. It even arguably could make sense for the relays to be destroyed and for civilization to pay a heavy price for the destruction of the Reapers. We'd just like less plotholes and more closure.

...I'd arguably rather have a refined ending that kept the color-coded bullshittery but simply explained why Joker abandoned the fight and started running and gave insight as to what the Normandy crew does next on that planet, than an ending where Shepard overcame 'Indoctrination' and the allied fleets magically won the day and the Reapers randomly shut down and there was a parade in Manhattan or some shit. I'd still think the ending was flawed, I mean there's no way a color-coded A-B-C ending with minimal practical differences in a Bioware RPG isn't flawed, but its flaws would simultaneously encompass Bioware's original vision while still showing gamers more respect in addressing pivotal questions that merited answers.

EDIT: Like, the key here is a distinction between what I'd want in an ideal world, and what I think it's actually reasonable to expect from Bioware.
That distinction is sometimes lost among some critics.
Like, I think the lack of closure and the crazy illogical plotholes in what appears to be a rushed, slapped-together ending demands a fix, because bad writing in the ending of a Bioware trilogy is just inexcusable.
But on the other hand, I don't expect Bioware to cater to what would be my personal desire of an epic ending in which three hundred different variables from all three games were accounted for in discerning the exact ending your Shepard gets.

...I think there's a difference between a reasonable criticism that articulates fatal flaws that desperately require resolution, and one's own personal fantasies of a 'perfect' gaming experience.
Like, I think the difference is: Are you bitching about a new ending because you just want YOUR ideal ending? If so, it's a futile aspiration. Even a new ending would still be Bioware's ending, not yours.
But if you're bitching about desiring a new ending so that you can even begin to understand what Bioware actually intended, because it's literally such a mess that you have no idea what the heck they were even trying to do, that's another matter entirely.

The ending can still be Bioware's ending.
I just want a Bioware ending that's actually written the way I know Bioware can write their endings.
Even Dragon Age: Origins incorporated some closure in its writeups of what happened after the fact that accounted for decisions you made in a way that was still Bioware's vision but that gave you a sense of personal accomplishment.


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