Bush interview from Ireland
 

Pretty interesting.

Realplayer link (interview starts at about the 15 minute mark)

Transcript

Evidently the White House is none too happy with how things went:

News story

another news story

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Mostly I'm not going to comment on the substance of the interview, so as to allow people to form their own impressions, but I would have liked to see her call him on a couple points:

Well, for starters, France spends more per capita, and the EU spends more total.

On some point I have to do a post around here on the US contractors involved, the DOD/Justice memos seeking justifications for torture, the similar treatment in Guantanamo, Afghanistan, and everything else that shows that this was bloody well more than "a few soldiers." Ah well.

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AHEM. Try just Iraq. There are no true reports beyond disapproval of how Afghanistan and Guantanamo are run. Personally, they look perfectly fine to me.

I'm sorry, but that's wrong it isn't just confined to Iraq. See, there's this contractor in Afganistan who, while not as bad as Ab G in Iraq, it certainly isn't a pretty picture.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...AF0894DC404482
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-6-2004_pg7_48

This article pretty much covers everything, plus mentions another case of abuse in Iraq, apparently done by Delta force near Bagdad's airport at a BIF facility (battlefield interogation facility).
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=1544

Then of course, there's the memos, which even in the best case scenario suggests that this administration toyed with the idea of torture. And likely implimented some nastier techniques for the Cuba facility, than normally permitted.

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index....4881222620.xml

So it isn't *JUST* Iraq and the problem is more widespread. Pesonally I suggest we wait until the trials & investigations are completed, before making a claim as to exactly where the problem lies & who's responsible. Right now the situation is still rather fluid & the facts aren't fully out.

Sky Warrior Bob

Bleh. /me needs to keep up with the news more often.

Same here. I always miss the important stuff.

Well, I'm not exactly sure if this is the proper place for these comments, but as of right now it seems about the only place for comments as follows.

One, this country, while it does have it's laws and restrictions, is the most protected, free place you'll find this time of human history. This is also, by far, the richest, most prosperous country known to man, and does, in fact, supply 33+% (yes, 33+) of the world's food supply. Don't believe me? Look it up.

Doesn't just that count for something? Apparently not, since we have Americans talking about how bad our country is, and this and that. Basically bitching because something isn't the way they want it. That's perfectly fine, actually. It is, afterall, one of the founding principles of our great nation.

However, and I know a staggering amount of others agree with me on this, I do believe that people who think our country sucks and is wrong need to get the hell out. If someone is making their money here, eating the food this country produces, enjoying the freedoms that those soldiers that are dying over in Iraq are providing, and they somehow, someway, think that this place is so bad to live in...then get out. Plain and simple.

Now, I am pretty sure I am going to get heat over this, and for several reasons. (Just let it be known I am not assaulting anyone's...patriotism....yet.)

But, anyway. Onto a few more points.

While I love this country, I will admit that our current president is....less than appealing. In fact, I'd say he's an idiot. A big dummy who can't speak to save his life. Now, many will disagree, but that's my opinion. I am an American, and am allowed to disagree.

I brought up the point with the president specifically because it seems that all of these POW beatings are tied to him someway, somehow. Let me inform everyone of something...The tactics that Iraqis are using are far less appealing than making someone take a picture nude, or beating someone for a while. "Hey guys, I think I'll strap a bomb to my kid's chest and send him into a US building." That's what it boils down to folks. Deny this all you want, and say that the US is wrong, but that still remains.

And yes, two wrongs to make a right, but is it necessary for all this discussion on our troops beating up a few Iraqi shitheads and sending them to prison for the rest of their lives? Consider this, fellas. How would you feel about a guy who probably shot and killed someone you knew? A guy who would gladly skin you alive, or saw off your friggin head. Consider those things before saying ANYTHING at all about US citizens doing anything to anyone.

And, lastly...I am once again saying that this cluttered, un-organized, poorly composed reply is not centered or focused on anyone. Just a generality that fit in well like a piece to a jigsaw puzzle here...

Moral of the story, kids: To win a war, you have to fight like your enemy. The lower he goes, the lower you go. The end.

I don't know where to begin. Maybe I shouldn't but I'll say a few things I can pick out from that stream without straining myself too much.

How do you reconcile this: with that: That sounds like complete nonsense to me. You can complain, but if you do, get the hell out? What am I missing here?

I can't disagree more with that on more levels. Especially when a war is supposedly based on the moral superiority of one party. You loose that, who's the freaking good guy? You, because you enjoy greater wealth in your country?

This post is just a big lumpfest. Those that "hate" the US: LUMP!
The POWs: LUMP! (do you know how many of them got a fair trial?) (Dr EDIT: sorry, I forgot how theoritically giving people fair trial makes a country morally superior enough not only to skip the whole trial deal and go straight on to the morally justified abuse)

Big emotional appeal. You even feel you have to ham it up so it sounds way better than bombing from a distance.

That's just a sample, and no I don't think I'll start again.

Personally, I don't think people need to "get out", but it wouldn't hurt to have them travel to other countries and see what its like there. There are some parts of the world that view all Americans as these ultra-rich gods of sorts. I know on Terceira, the Americans were universally thought of as rich.

My point is, we don't have it nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Not by a long shot. So why complain about the petty crap? (Petty being stuff like how America's government sucks) Why not wait to complain when it starts to operate on the same level (economically) as say...Mexico, or India, or China? Our economy is still one of the strongest in the world, and yet we sit and bitch about it. When we go to help another country, the response we get is "Fuck off", and then if we don't help, we're called heartless. At this rate someones going to say To hell with this, and we'll go into isolationism again.

I still don't see how the internal wealth of a country justifies whatever actions its forces make outside of it.

And while I thought the issue here was "people complaining about external policies", and not about the internal way of life of their country, and that I thinking hopping from one to another to avoid coherent criticism ("this government is good to you, so you wouldn't complain when it's bad to someone else"), I think people are allowed to be pissed off about degrading conditions of life, even if they're not as bad as Ethiopia's (unless Ethiopia just got better and I didn't know)

Dr EDIT, after reply: Whoops, sorry there

Actually that was just a generic OT rant about the pissy-ness of people in general. People being rude in stores and such, but yeah.