Abortion: A Choice, Not Chore
 

Okay, I think I'm treading on dangerous territory here since absolutely no threads about abortion exist on this this board, at all(I did a search and didn't find any). So, if it's not to be discussed, I'm sure it'll be closed soon.

Anyway, I caught a glimpse of the news about sixty minutes ago, where some African-American guy named "Alan [I didn't catch his last name since they changed the screen display]" was talking about [that forbidden subject we can no longer discuss on these forums] and that one party was going to be favored over the other because, (not exactly word-for-word quote, but this i pretty much what he said)"[Party not favored] are causing the black community to diminish because of abortion." So I just stared and thought to myself, "The hell? How are [party not favored]s causing people to get abortions? It's a choice, not a chore."

So, here you guys go: a thread for abortion, if it's allowed. And I'll post my stance.

This country was made with the freedom of the people in mind. The freedom of choice. People who are for abortion are pro-choice, not pro-death. Now, what if the conceivers(not all conceivers are parents) can not afford anything for this child? Not even the medical bill for birth? Or, what if...

[Logical Error: Memory tells me I've already mentioned this before. But, thread can not be found.]the woman was, y'know, raped?[/Repeat][/Logical Error]

And so what if she turned out to one of those types of people who just hates her child because of it?

Okay, so there are adoption agencies, but that's why I brought in the birth medical bill. True, being born should be a right and not a chore, either, but no all hospitals see it that way. The woman whom gave birth to me had to pay a lot of bills for my older siblings(I'm different because a different man conceived me, one with hospital insurance available).

And people are taking about fetuses have rights, too. Yet, people want parents to do what's best for their children. Parents already dictate their children's lives(in some instances, all the way up until the child is fifty). Anyway, some of my friends were traumatized by their foster parents(Woody Allen, anyone?). So, adoption agencies may not always be the best answer. You know, the old saying, "There are things worse than death."? Perhaps the conceivers took this into consideration and decided abortion would be better.

Then there's one more thing I wanted to touch, but those are against the rules of this forum.

I hate abortion, not just as a Christian, but as a person. Killing something that's obviously alive just because it incoveniences you doesn't make it right.

I mean with all the birth control measures out there (who cant get a condom? I got a 6-pack from the supermarket and I'm 16) the only reason you can get an unwanted pregnacy is from laziness, rape, or a 1 in (real factual number here) chance the thing (condom, pill, etc.) breaks/doesn't work.

And even if you can't handle the baby, or don't want it because it came from rape, adoption isn't the true horror story the news makes it out to be. I know lots of kids that are adopted, they're just fine, and my parent's best friends have adopted two children who otherwise would have lead horrible lives (ones from Russia, the other is Vietnamese). So adoption not only takes a problem away from you but gives hope to some people who can't have their own. And of course we hear horror stories about bad foster parents, the news can't thrive on reporting every happy foster home can it? (also, Woody Allen may be a tad messed up but he's also rich, respected, and can obviously deal with his problems).

And there are plenty of orginizations that can help mothers with unwanted pregnacies, including paying the hospital bills and going through the proper channels to get it adopted.

But, even if abortion became illegal, the next day underground abortion clinics would spring up...

So, in closing, sure there are some things worse than death, but how can you decide that the child in you will live a horrible life because YOU are at a rough point now?

I fail to understand how an early abortion is worse than a condom or birth control. The child isn't any more 'alive' than a sperm or an egg. It's not sentient. It doesn't know it exists. It's just a couple of cells. It's not even an invasive procedure at early stages. The mother takes a pill and the child is flushed out of her system. No muss no fuss. Well... ok, a little muss. But not as much muss as birth. Ick.

Only real difference is that the blastocyte has a 9 in 10 chance (about) of being born while a sperm/egg has a 1 in 20 (more exact) chance if it's left alone.

Further, the adoption system is already over flowing and can't find good homes for all these children. That's why orphanages and foster homes exist. They can't place them with a real family so they get bumped around from place to place, and a lot of times are hurting for funds to feed all these kids. If everyone just gave their children up for adoption we'd end up with a lot of trouble besides that.

And, beyond all that, you both forgot the 'mother's life is in danger if she gives birth'. I know people that had abortions because of that. I'm glad they did it, because if they hadn't there's a snowball's chance in hell that either they or the child would have survived.

Also, that's 1 in 100, if they're used properly. 99% chance of preganancy using just one of those. Pill or condom. However, let's put this in perspective. The average american has sex 134 times a year. That means in one year, the average american, if they use ONLY condoms or pills is going to knock someone up or get knocked up.

And they're going to do the same in about 6 years even if they use both.

And this is only if they're using them properly, and, that's not a large portion thanks to the whole sex taboo we have going around. We're the country that has the most sex, yet we're one of the few countries that won't come right out and talk about it so that our children go into their, most likely, promiscuous lives protected... or at least armed with TRUE knowledge so they aren't out fucking just to see what it's like... because they know their parents/teachers were showing them the pure horror side of it... you know, instead of saying it's fun and good, but maybe not the most responsible choice. And then explaining how to make the choice slightly more responsible by explaining how the different contraceptives work.

http://www.cybersciences.com/cyber/3...blastocyte.jpgThat's a child? (It's a blastocyte, fertilized egg. The thing most women eject from their bodies when they get an abortion.)
http://syi.hkcampus.net/~syi-kc/sperm.jpgHow about those little guys? Are they children too? (I'm sure you know what these are.)

So just because it doesn't say goo goo and ga ga its not living? The fact that it could grow to be the next (important position of power) doesn't matter? Yes its a child, its an egg fertilized by a sperm, give it a few more weeks, when it gets all fetusy, and then you wouldn't show a picture.

But then again, abortion has always been one of those topics where one side can't 'convert' the other. No matter what I say, you'll still think killing the thing inside a mother is okie dokie, and I'll hate it no matter how many scientific facts you show.

Right. And you're making the chances five times worse of a child being born that would grow into an important position of power every time you put on a condom. You're making it about 50 times worse when you put on a condom and screw someone taking the pill.

I'm asking what the difference is. You're still stopping a child from being born. If the blastocyte is a child, why aren't the sperm and egg? There's not a whole lot of difference.

Also, try a few more months for it to get fetusy. Not a few more weeks.

Actually, my sister-in-law was that way. However, she had a sea section(???? that can't be right, but that's what my spell check came up with) for all her children.

Hold on, if theres a 1 in 100 chance of failure, then shouldn't it be 1% chance of pregnancy?

I guess I'm under-average, then. I'm a failure!-sniff- But, doesn't "knocked up" mean "have sex," which would equivelate to 134? Or maybe there's just a difference in our vocabulary.

Maybe I'm alone here, but I think Fate has already determed the person who will rise to the next (important position of power). It's just as well that with what limited resources we have, the child be removed now instead of later.

Yes. I messed up. I meant 99% chance of it working and 1% chance of pregnancy. Which is still 1.3 children per year for the average american.
Knocked up means getting someone pregnant, around here. Also, if it makes you feel any better, I'm sure that there are lots of very above average people that are figured into that and raise the bar a bit. But then, there's also virgins. Probably more of them than there are porn stars and whores (at least honest whores). Oh well. Nevermind.

There are people which giving birth is too stressful to them because they're sick at the time. Surgery would be even worse, and the child would still likely die. Examples include people with MS, people that are very dehydrated for whatever reason, etc. etc.

(Also, it's C-Section)

As far as condoms, just wanted to point out that condom failing =/= pregnancy. [edit] Apparently, I was mistaken. Well, learn something new, etc. [/i]

As far as the sex survey, 1. it presumably includes married people, who are more likely to have sex and, y'know, kind of expected to have kids, and 2. only valid to the extent that sex surveys are trustworthy, which, well, they aren't.

As far as abortion goes -- nothing, really, this is one of several strictly-defined areas where I flatly refuse to have an opinion.

That's actually the chance of getting pregnant when using a condom correctly and it doesn't pop. It's closer to 99.7%, if memory serves. Not the chances of it just allowing sperm through or whatever. That's also for a spermicidal condom.

The rest of that is pretty much correct, though. I was just trying to point out that if you have sex 100 times with a condom on, chances are good you're going to knock someone up... and that's if you use it right and it doesn't break.

YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS!!! There is a good reason why there is not topic on abortion, it's a forbidden topic. Just like religion. You are tempting the wrath of the mods. I can hear the bannings like distant thunder.