Church and State
 

FunnyLooking brought this up in another forum and I wanted to address it. "Seperation of church and state" originally was quoted as a way to prevent the newly formed U.S. government from instituting a national religion, as was the way of things in England. People have taken it completely out of context and used it to do everything from removing the Ten Commandments out of schools, to declaring the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional.

I do agree with the law saying that no public funding can go to private schools with a religious affiliation, as people who don't worship under that religion would be paying for the advancement of it. But, that's as far as we as a country should accept it to go. You got a problem with the pledge? Then don't say it.

It's an example of simple things being taken too seriously. Sometimes it should be taken seriously. But in the case of saying the Pledge of Allegiance it's not too serious. However, I don't think the Ten Commandments should be in public schools(I don't think it is in Public, but I'm saying it just in case). For most young kids, it might just seem like another set of rules to follow.

The "under god" part of the Pledge was introduced in the 1950s as a result of Cold War-era commie panic, the theory at the time being that only a mention of our national love of the Judeo-Christian god (what them dirty heathen reds spit on) would distinguish the Pledge as sufficiently American. Not a joke. The "under god" line is about as relevant to modern America as duck-and-cover filmstrips and fallout shelters.

I am unsure of this bit, and to change the subject a little, but didn't the term we currently use for Democracy come up in WW1 as a propaganda tool to get people to sign up. Like "Fighting for Democracy". Even though America is not a democracy.

Yes, but if people are uncomfortable saying "under God" they can always skip that part. I know it's kind of a cold hearted thing to say, but it is an open option.

Bob: It is indeed an option, but it seems a bit less stupid, in my opinion, to just get rid of it. We've made it clear we're a nation that doesn't favor any religion or any god, so why not show that moreso? Why cling to this small bit of Cold War propaganda?

Mrflibble: I know people who would kill you for saying the pledge isn't to be taken seriously.

Don't worry, I'm not even close to one of those people.

Anyways, I think we are a democracy... eh, there's some more technical term to it, but we're a democratic form of government nonetheless. The term itself, and the fact that we adhere to it, isn't propaganda at all.

You mean a republic.

Anyway. Holding on to coldwar propeganda, like Kefka said, is just silly. What good does it do us? All it accomplishes is causing the random complaint and some people who refuse to say it. Also, I think we should teach children that they don't have to say the pledge of allegiance and not begin giving it until highschool. It's pledging your servitude to a country... you shouldn't have to do that until you're old enough to understand it... and furthermore old enough to understand that you don't have to. And yes, it is on law that no one can MAKE you say any of it.

Heh, glad I don't have to deal with those types of people here. I've found plenty of them. Yes, we do have a democratic form of government, in some senses, in others were not quite democratic. It's just in most of what I have seen with history, besides the revolution and then the start of WW1 and on. The term "Democracy" was rarely used. And during the revolution, the bit that does use democracy a lot was the decleration of independance. Which was written by Thomas Jefferson who belived in the more democratic form of government within the states.

Sorry about my writings though. I am not the best at wording what I am trying to say, but at least I try.

<People have taken it completely out of context and used it to do everything from removing the Ten Commandments out of schools, to declaring the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional.>

The Ten commandments should not be in schools because the first five of those ten commandments are not man-man relationships, and has no bearing on secular schooling.

The Pledge of Allegiance is stupid in general. It sounds very much like a communist oath, comrade.

Plus, the whole 'out of context' thing is extremely moot. The entire judicial branch's duty is to 'interpret' the constitution.

<You mean a republic.>

And another term for republic is... why yes a 'representative democracy'.

I agree with you about the ten commandments in public schools (bad wording on my part), but what is wrong with the pledge? We don't have to swear an oath, we don't have to be socialist and give up most of our earnings, we are given all these freedoms of press, speach, religion...and all our government asks (besides taxes) is that we say a little dinky pledge before school. You don't want to say it you don't have to. It's there to make you remember what you're a part of.

Congress says a prayer asking for wisdom every morning, what about that?