The Warring States of NPF - Magic the gathering arugument

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Magic the gathering arugument

since the wizards forum is down i will ask the question here

Ahem: i played the card Harsh mercy it does the following: Each player chooses a creature type. Destroy all creatures that arent of a type chosen in this way. they cant be regenerated.

i chose slivers my opponent chose zombies. here is the problem. he is convinced that his Artifact creature cards Triskelion will not be destroyed by harsh mercys effect because they have no creature type other than Artifact creature.

so my question is do the bloody triskelions die or not? explain your response.

It dies because, being an artifact creature, it is not a zombie or a sliver, and the effect of the card kills creatures that aren't zombies or slivers.

Nyeh! Circular logic, admittedly, but, oh well.

Circular logic works best when you have a lot of stuff in the graveyard. Works even better if you have a compulsion.

I say let em die, because you can pick Artifact Creature as a type, and he didn't, so...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venice

I say let em die, because you can pick Artifact Creature as a type, and he didn't, so...

Actually, you can't. Artifact creature is a combination of two permenent types, not a creature type in itself. If he had mistform mask and mana or a standardize, he could do something. But Artifact creatures are not subject to creature type selection unless they have a creature type, like Golem or Myr.

artifact creatures are subject to anything that affects creatures or artifacts. This spell affects creatures, so it is affected by it. Even though it doesn't have a creature type, it is still a creature......creatures that are not zombies or slivers die, and the Triskelion is not a zombie or sliver. Therefore, I conclude that the Triskelion is history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comprehensive Rulebook

212.2e Artifact creatures combine the characteristics of both the creature and artifact types and are subject to spells and abilities that affect either or both types.

212.3c Creature subtypes are always a single word and are listed after a long dash: “Creature — Minotaur,” “Artifact Creature — Golem Legend,” etc. Creature subtypes are also called creature types. Creatures may have multiple subtypes.
Example: “Creature — Goblin Wizard” means the card is a creature with the subtypes Goblin and Wizard.

Meaning that Artifact Creatures do not have subtypes, but are still creatures and so are effected by anything that effects creatures. Thus they die to the card. Not only that they always die when that card is played because they have no type to choose, unless you somehow give them a subtype.

perhaps Triskelion itself would be the subtype, despite also being the card's name? I mean, after Permanent Type and Subtype, the creature's name is the next way of specifying it....so if your friend REALLY wanted to save the creature, he should have chosen "Triskelions".

I have little evidence to back this up with, but it might be a good idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comprehensive Rulebook

205.3b Artifact, creature, and land subtypes are always single words and are listed after a long dash. Each word after the dash is a separate subtype. Artifact subtypes are also called artifact types. Creature subtypes are also called creature types. Land subtypes are also called land types. Artifacts, creatures, and lands may have multiple subtypes.
Example: “Basic Land — Mountain” means the card is a land with the Mountain subtype. “Creature — Goblin Wizard” means the card is a creature with the subtypes Goblin and Wizard. “Artifact — Equipment” means the card is an artifact with the subtype Equipment.

So thats a negative on the name being the subtype although you may have been thinking of another rule:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comprehensive Rulebook

216.1. Some effects put token creatures into play. A token is controlled by whomever put it into play and owned by the controller of the spell or ability that created it. The spell or ability may define any number of characteristics for the token. A token doesn’t have any characteristics not defined by the spell or ability that created it. The spell or ability that creates the token sets both its name and creature type at the same time. A “Goblin creature token,” for example, is named “Goblin” and has the creature subtype Goblin. If a token’s name is two words or more, it has the creature subtype for each of those words. For example, a “Goblin Scout creature token” is named “Goblin Scout” and has two creature subtypes: Goblin and Scout. Once a token is in play, changing its name doesn’t change its creature type, and vice versa.

Which applies only when tokens are created.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sithdarth

Yes.

Edit: and, as such, artifact creatures will not come back with Patriach's Bidding, be affected by Coat of Arms, and so on. If someone ever tries to tell you otherwise (happened to me fairly often), please straighten them out, for great justice.