Robotics
 

Okay, we all know that robots are a very real and possible thing. Everyday we come closer and closer to something from a sci-fi novel. So I've got a question for you.

Is robotics a threat? First of all, there's the inevitable, "Robots exceed us and take over the world" scenario, which isn't really all that far fetched. Then of course, there's the possibility of blue collar, and maybe even white-collar, workers losing their jobs to more efficient, cheaper robots. Or, we could become so dependent on robots that we as humans fall into a complete apathetic lethargy and cease to do anyhting worthwhile.

Or are robots the future? A valuable addition to our world that will improve the quality of life everywhere and allow us to pursue grander things?

Okay, discuss.

Ok anything about robots taking over is pure science fiction. I don't believe that will ever be a problem. I give humans a little more credit than being that dumb to let the robots get the upper hand. Why would robots want to dominate the world anyway? That's a silly human notion. Only humans would want to kill and rule over others. Robots wouldn't do that unless they were programmed to kill.

I do believe they could be a threat as in ppl losing their job while robots could do their job more effeciently. But there might be new job openings in the robotic market. But yeah it could be a problem.

I actually liked the idea like in FFX that robots did everything. And all ppl had to do was play and entertain themselves all day. That would be the life. Never having to work. :) But that might be boring though.

But in the end I believe advanced robotics will do more good than bad.

Robots wouldn't try to rule the world as we see it, but, as my favourite sci-fi scenarios involving high robotics have it, they'd have to deal with us if we ever sought to protect our perceived monopoly on Earth.

There'd need to be a whole new economic system for that to work, since right now, work being eliminated is a bad thing (go figure). But I'm all for it, 100% cybernation! I mean, there's enough creative, intellectual or purely recreative business to occupy us until doomsday. We'd only become slobs because we're dependant on having labor to do.

Also, that was my favourite part of FFX.

The interesting thing about robots is that they can never surpass humans in productivity. If a human works 20 hours and you only pay him for ten then yoou just made a good deal of money. Now a robot doesn't need to be payed but it does needs electricty and repair. It can't do work without these things. So if it does 20 hours of work you have to 'pay' it for the entire time. Thus humans have a potential that machines just don't have. Of course super efficent machines could still do the job for less, but they don't have the potential for exploitation humans do. Human's will continue to be dominate the work force, at the very lest in third world countries, while employers can exploit this fact. In short it's going to take a few pretty big leaps before machine efficiency surpasses human exploitation. Even then there will be jobs just of a more intelectual nature or perhasp serviceing of the robots.

If robots are ever built to the point of human thought level we are so screwed. The amount of insanity I will have to endure would be unbearable.

First I will have to hear the excessive rantings about how robots are being discriminated against and not giving the same oppurtunities and treatment as human beings when clearly they think and feel like we do. The obvious will be they're made of metals and wires and we pump blood and have limited life-spans, this will just be viewed as a disability by a new radical liberal age and to emphasize on that in arguing the point of robot's rights is "ignorant and useless". So robots will be giving equal rights as people despite how we made them. (In which I can see already them responding "well we make kids. When does humanity begin and machiniry end?)

Then there will be a battle thirty years down the line over robot/human marriage. Because for some reason people can't seem to be happy with regular sex and have to invent new means of getting arousal, it wouldn't shock me for people to become robosexual (Despite being human..) and saying that denying thier love is evil and wrong. Eventually this too shall pass. Despite how robots are STILL inorganic, constructed by man, and are overall more efficent and feel less pain then us but still getting the same perks we do..

Eventually the oldschoolers grow insane and join another radical movment against the sympathetic but loony union of robots rights and protection. or RRP. Laws go back and forth, states are divided, nations torn apart over some stupid thing like humans screwing robots and why something that was litterally built to be faster and stronger should have as much rights as someone who trained thier bodies or raised thier kids right.

I havn't even taken into consideration all the implants that will exsist by then thus creating multiracial robots/humans "cyborgs"..

Don't worry though, they get thier's though, they'll have to deal with eachother's bullcrap. The whole differant culture robots, IE: Mechas like gundamn or artifical humans like android 17. Then robots will be just as miserable as humans and to commit genocide against either would not only be morally insufficeint but would solve nothing.

This is the future. So says I.. :bmage:

The limitation of any robot/program (since the two are really interchangable once you get to the mental capacity level) is that it can only do what it is programmed to do. If you program a robot to simply sit there and wank off, it will do so until its power supply is exhausted. On the other hand, if you program the robot with the capacity to learn (Yes, this is actually programmable and not just a fake term that is thrown around, I'll explain in more detail if someone requests it) or with the ability to perceive emotions (not so sure on this one) or to contemplate philosophy, to attempt to understand the purpose of its own existance there could be a problem with regards as to human survivability.

This can be avoiding by two methods that must, really, be applied at the same time. The first is the application of Asimov's laws of Robotics (including the 0th law). The second is to recreate our notion of economics so that continual growth is not necessarily required to be considered to be a thriving business. Frankly, I think we already need this change but thats another thread. By removing the need for continual growth and defining a successful business as one in which Price of Product = Cost to Produce Product (including materials, labor etc) with no profit involved, alot of the strife would be fixed. Furthermore, we would need to divise a way to alter our economic system so that loss of a job isn't a huge issue. The only way I can conceptualize ths right now is by eliminating the concept of money, but this first requires humans to grow beyond the need to acquire wealth and simply want to better themselves.

Looking at current events, thats a longass time away so at this point I would say we're probably screwed if robots go into mass production.

EDIT: The edit is thrown in with the previous material. I forgot to finish my post before I hit submit.

Hmm...I read a book where the Earth (or something really close to it) got knocked off its orbit and was floating a LOT closer to the sun (destroying all the oxygen and water for some reason), so all that was left was a few super-animals and...Robots (who had achieved sentiency, in secret, a few years prior). Well, the Robots decided that the earth (or whatever) wasn't meant to be run by them, so they 'modified' the humans to survive without air or water.

Anyways, I think that if Robots DO surpass humans, they'll be nice and help us out with whatever. Robots are cool like that.

Well I used to dream of being mean to robots. But I really think once they reached the exact level of us (as in, unmistakably human. not little metal boxes that say "hello. how are you doing?" 24/7), I would treat them the same. In the end: it's about programming. Humans are programmed in the same way a robot could be programmed, and if all went well, then there would be very little deliberately malicious programming.

I, as well, used to think the advantage of employing robots would be great. But along with the 'humans are programmed' argument, I believe you would have to pay them. Since they would be just as "human" as we are, they would need money for the same reasons we do--living. They would only not need money if we set up a society in which they were creatures to be abused. If robots were given true life with ability to do as much as a human---to get drunk, have sex, etc. (i can totally think of ways for it to be done) I don't see why we would treat them like inferiors.

The only chance of something like a takeover happening would be if we DID abuse them--don't you see? In every case where that's happened they are used as free machines for labor. Is it any different from a plantation in the 1800s? Assuming they were fully "human," they'd revolt real quick.

I don't think we should purposely limit robots in the Asimov's Law way. If we're going by my rules, I'd say given them the human limits--ability to get drunk, ability to have sex, ability to feel emotion (it's all possible people. you don't need a "soul" to do these things)...get my drift?

Here's my input:

Is robotics a threat?: Yes, it is. Any new technology is a threat. It has the opportunity to be used for extreme good (ie serving humans) or extreme bad (ie fighting wars). Science has no conscious. If something can be achieved, it WILL be. In most cases I believe enough good AND bad results stem from any given technology. We end up bitching about it but we are so used to it we won't bother to get rid of it. Humans never devolve.

Or are robots the future?: Robots are the present, they've even been around long enough to also be the past. Most industrial factories employ more robots than humans. Mind you, these are simple robots. Not the 1950s-sci-fi-walk-on-two-legs you're thinking of. But those are already being developed by Honda. And the wrap is that the first wave of robots that will be available to the public will be very small (about 18 inches high) to curb society's fear of robots because the little buggers look so cute. Once we're acclimated... we'll have adult sized bots...

A great sci-fi movie to see about this is "I, Robot" with Will Smith. It deals with all of these questions and I think the conclusions are pretty logical. See it in theatre if you can. There was a loophole in Asimov's 3 laws that allowed robots to take over the world. BTW-someone mentioned a 0th law? What's that?

The "loophole" that you're referring to isn't really a loophole. Its more of the first law extrapolated and not anticipated. Asimov's First Law of robotics states that "A Robot may not harm a human, or through inaction allow a human to come to harm." The 0th law is the First Law extrapolated, saying "A robot may not harm humanity, or through inaction, allow humanity to come to harm." The "loophole" that allows the robots to take over the world is if they decide that humans aren't competant/careful/intelligent enough to do it themselves and therefore must do it for them to prevent humans from coming to harm through their own stupidity.

EDIT: And by the way, the book I, Robot has nearly no relation to the movie. The movie was originally going to go by a totally different title but they managed to acquire the Asimov lisence and decided to go with it. There is only an exceedingly weak correlation to the book, taking elements from each of the short stories in the novel and kinda mashing them together. My opinion as a hardcore Asimov fan (Though I never could tolerate the Foundation series)? Like pissing on his grave.