A collection of muscles, bones and chemicals... or something else?
 

Do you think we are merely a load of bones, muscles, blood, chemicals and other stuff containing an extremly powerful biological computer with a pathetic "hard-drive" (I may be wrong but apparently the brain can hold 100000 megabits of long term memory!).
Or do you think there is something meta-physical about us? Do we have a higher conciouness or do we just have faster brains than animals? Do animals have a higher conciousness or not?
If we created a computer that emulated human thought exactly would it count as "life" (lets avoid discussion about reproduction and respiration and stuff if thats ok please?)

What do you think? Please tell me if I don't make sense!

After the expirience I had a while back that I can only describe to you as talking to God (Or atleast some sort of diety..) I find that our world is more like the matrix then I feel comfertable with.

Not so much were all being hosts to some super computer, but more-so trapped under an illussion of what is and what aint. Much like the matrix, mankind feeds this lie for "our own protection" and frankly it gets to the point where you don't know whom or what to trust. But what i've concluded is it's all relative and subject to change, but things are pretty darn predictable in the long run. Nothing is without reasoning, but purpose is far distant. I cannot describe the way I feel because speech is a very limited form of expression. Infact if someone were to challenge me in my "convo with God" I couldn't really delve into it as much as I'd want to. This uber Christian girl who was my friend at one point asked me "If you talked to God, then what's the meaning of life?"

You win some, you lose some.
Yeah, that's about the only way I could describe it..
She's now convinced I talked to the devil. Yes, because clearly one of the few spiritual encounters I had where I didn't feel threatend and furthermore was a learning expirience HAD to be t3h s@t@N! : /

This is why I no longer implore going to church, you can be spiritual all by your lonesome. Besides, there's alot of gaps in the bible, there's stuff they just don't want you to know. Church and state seperate my ass, they're just goverment with robes and big hats if you ask me..

Good thing I left out the weirdest part, after talking to me God said with an evil smile "You know, you remind me alot of Lucifer, and believe me, there's a distinct differance between Lucifer and Satan" and as He said that we both looked at the t.v screen of Bush giving a speech.

Come to find out there IS a big differance.. Lucifer was just added to the bible a few hundred years ago to make paganism appear more wicked. Lucifer in actuallity has no relation to Satan and this spiritual encounter was not the first to mistake me for/compare me to him.

Lucifer is Latin for "Venus".

Cheerful Coffin: Tone down the religion, man. Seriously. You're going to spark a religious debate, and we don't allow those here.

Everyone else: Do NOT reply to all the religious stuff in his post. Seriously.

I appolagise, I don't want to start any arguments. Had I thought about it I probably would've known more people might react negativly then positively to my interpetation of the dream.

Again, sorry. I was just hoping it might bring some people peace like it brought me. :wmage:

I believe that lifeforms are more than the sum of their parts. Yes we are basically a group of bones, chemicals, muscles, etc. but if you just but all that in a big bowl will you get a human being? No. It is the specific way in which all these things work together that make life.
Now if we could create a computer that was able to think in the same way as humans would it be life? No. It would not fit the definition of a living organism (Consumes fuel, reproduces, grows, moves, and responds to outside stimulii) however it is sentient. Therefore it has self awareness, or "a soul" for lack of a better term, so destroying it would not be ethical.

I believe this very forum is proof that we are greater then the sum of our parts. The very fact that we are able to read posted messages and to post our own responses shows that we act in a logical function, not randomly, or just compeled by basic desires.

We are simply the grandest expression of life yet to exist. We are the pinnacle of existence, and as such we enjoy certain pleasantries other animals don't. Sentience is a byproduct of increased thought capacity. Much like the leap from a hand helf calculator to a super computer, one is simply a more complex expression of the other, however by its complexity it has access to so much more functionality that it can hardly be placed in the same category any longer. Meta-physical describes actions with no physical result, like thought processes for example. We are both physical and meta-physical beings, we can think in terms of abtracts and build entire contructs of logic in our minds. We have broken through a barrier with our ability, and on this side it appears to us that we are no longer a part of the system which spawned us. However, there are many more barriers ahead, and we may not be the ones to cross them, life doesn't stop moving forward, and we are but the first creatures to experience sentience, not necessarily the last.

We are simply the grandest expression of life yet to exist.
On this planet, at least. ;)

As a side note to that, Funka, and going back to something Cheerful Coffin was saying on not being able to put one's feelings into words... I have come to believe that a person is truely adept at communication not when they can state something in the most eloquent fashion, but rather in the simplest. To be able to take a complex and abstact idea and to use simple words to define it. The Metaphor is mankind's greatest invention. And it is a great example of what you were talking about.

Also, I don't mean to start any trouble but I think the whole topic of this thread has religious underpennings, and while it may not be appropriate to get into the meat of it, it does at least deserve to be addressed. What is religion if not a further example of our complexity? (Take that as you will.) There are no religious animals, after all. Religion goes hand in hand with philosophy; the trick is knowing when to hold one's tongue. :p

Thats pretty much what Im asking. But to specify what I mean, this "robot" is mobile, it consumes fuel, it reproduces with a form of DNA in its coding by building new robots and it responds to outside stimulii. It is also capable of thinking with the speed and complexity of human thought, but if we "made" it, does it count as life? And would it have a "soul".

Yes this thread does have religious underpinnings but every discussion about our creation can have religious underpinnings! I would appreciate it however if we can try to avoid religious discussion as much as possible though. And any talk of a "God" of any specific religious text.

Yep, as the mods have said (because Brian 8-Bit man Clevinger said he was tired of seeing flame wars over the shit), religious debates have always degenerated into flame wars and overly heated discussions on the boards. 'nuff said.

Anywho, it comes into a matter of what life is whether or not to judge if "artificial intellligenes" are just that: life. Me, being of the type that we can't really know, the only real option in my train of thought is that there's no way to tell. Could go either way. I can't really go into detail here, though, as it slides into religion quite easily.

But, if that's not your route of travel, then try here: it has all the complexities of life. How isn't it "real?" Think about it. It's a contradictory subject, AI.