I want to discuss Metal Gear Solid 3! (Warning Spoilers Abound!)
 

Personally, I don't think there's much call for spoiler space, as the game has been out for some time & if you haven't beaten it, you should very well know enough to avoid threads like this one. So I won't be blacking out any text for your benefit. Even though I could. So my advice to you, is turn back now, while you can...

Anyway, lets start things off...

I think I'll start things off with elements that I found disappointing. The top of that list being the lack of a direct tie-in to Dr. Pettrovich, the creator of the original 2 Metal Gears. I suppose Pettrovich could be Granin's 'American' friend, insofar as Granin being a Russian, wouldn't be likely to know many native Americans, but it still doesn't completly work for me.

I also didn't like The Boss's child theft scenario. Its just that, the Metal Gear games steal *WAY* too much from one another. I mean a whole lot of what goes on in Metal Gear Solid, happened in Metal Gear 1 & 2 for the MSX. (Even a Deep Throat type scenario happened in Metal Gear 2.) And MGS2's plot even called for such blatent plot duplication.

Its just aside from this plot duplication (ala Olga from MGS2), the game would have had a really original plot. Plus, I got the implication that The Boss was Big Boss's actual mom, yet neither of them knew it (especially because of the way Ocelot called Snake/BB son of the Boss, in a fashion unlike the Cobras.)

I'm still no fan of either the camera perspective or controls, compared to Metal Gear Solid 1. I hate to admit it, but I've played MGS2 & MGS3 more for the story, rather than the gameplay. Having played the MGS1 remake, I can only hope that the next MGS will take a cue from said game, which did fairly well in bringing the better qualities of MGS to a next gen system.


But beyond those complaints, the rest of the game blew me away. I can't say that I ever managed to fully get a feel for the new controls, but the number of new elements added to this game over the prior at least made for a really interesting experience.

The support team chatter was top notch, but I still prefer Otacon over & above any other game contacts thus far. And certainly can't wait to see him in the next chapter.

And while some have complained that the Cobras were a tad too underdeveloped character-wise, their different types of attacks more than made up for it. In comparision to MGS2, the boss battles were a whole lot more like MGS, rather than the clunky things that made up MGS2.

I think I'll stop right here, as I'm already in danger of having made this post a tad too big. I'll wait for responses & go from there.

One thing I'd particuarly be interested in talking about, is everyone's take on Campbell's involvement. You only hear from him on special occasions, like when you kill Ocelot or do something likewise time altering. Still, it makes me wonder if some sorta Quantum Leap thingie was going on with Solid Snake & Big Boss.

SWK
Edited to Add: Apparently nobody is interested in this thread. Too bad, I really wanted to put out my theory that the Metal Gear Solid games take place in the late 2020's to early 2040's. But ah well...

I thought Metal Gear Solid takes place about 2007ish with 2009 for Metal Gear Solid 2

Come on, you´ve interested me! I want to know that theory!

Well, as of MGS3, we know that Solidus (Solution), Liquid & Solid Snake were born in 1973. It is also known that Metal Gear (not MGS) took place in 1995 & Metal Gear 2 (MSX) takes place in 1999.

Using Big Boss's appearances in MGS3 (1964) & Metal Gear 2 (1999) we know that 35 years passed. We also know that MG2 Big Boss & Solidus (Solution) look virtually identical in MGS2, and that Solidus was President and in his late 40's through to his early 60's. Despite the fact that Solid appears to be in his 30's, he's actually the exact same age as Solidus, but because of his gene modification both he & Liquid aged at a different rate. Solidus, being the control, was an unaltered clone of Big Boss.

Anyway, in MGS3 Big Boss looks exactly like the current day Snake, which as I said, appears to be in his mid Thirties. Guesstimating from there, I add up Big Boss's general 30-ish age plus 35 year gap between MGS3 & MG2 to figure out that he's somewhere in his 60's by the time of MG2.

Using Big Boss as a reference, I assume that Solidus must also be in his 60's or at least late 50's in MGS2. Giving me a timeframe of late 2020's to early 2040's.

SWK
- I know earlier I said just plain 2020's, but I rechecked my facts, and concludded that I was significantly off. Sorry about that.

That also doesn't explain how Snake served in the Gulf War, and yet ALSO is still young enough so that people can say he "aged fast". Either he aged fast or he just plain aged...

Aged fast? First of all, I don't know where you're pulling that factoid from, as the only time in MGS that Snake's age is mentioned is when Meyrl is grilling him.

Meryrl: How old are you?
Solid Snake: Old enough to know what death looks like...

As for Snake's involvement with the Gulf War, I'm pretty sure that's only something that is an add-on to the Game Cube version, but wasn't mentioned in the original MGS. So, you can disregard it, as it might be something that Silicon Knights threw in, without consulting Hideo.

Even still, there's no absolute reason why you have to believe that they're talking about the current Gulf War. They could be talking about our current involvement, or even perhaps future involvements. You never know...

SWK

I was referring to "Not so young anymore, Snake?" and "Our materials are vintage, brother! Big Boss was in his late 70s when he was cloned!" ... "But I live on, in this arm!
Ecetera...

Also, there's no reason to assume The Twin Snakes is non-canon.

Where is that quote from? I haven't gotten around to finishing MGS:The Twin Snakes just yet. Then again, I vaguely recall reading something along those lines in the documents section of MGS2. Plus, I can't seem to find it in the text dumps that are up at GameFAQs.com.

Anyway, if what you're saying is true, then Big Boss was in his late 60's - early 70's in MGS3. Since he was cloned in 1973 & MGS3 takes place in 1964. So, either Liquid doesn't know the real facts, or your source is less than accurate.

SWK

I'm not entirely sure if Liquid said "late 50s" or "late 70s", but liquid snake did infact say those lines. I plan on replaying all three Solid games soon, maybe you should too, then we can compare notes. Or something.

Metal Gear Solid 3 - August 24, 1964 (Virtuous Mission), August 30+, 1964 (Snake Eater)

Metal Gear - 1995

Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake - Christmas Eve, 1999

Metal Gear Solid - February or March 2005

Metal Gear Solid 2 - 2007 (Tanker), 2009 (Plant)

There are more specific dates discernable for Metal Gear Solid, and both chapters of Metal Gear Solid 2, based upon dialogue and other information within the game. The only game without an exact date (AFAIK) is Metal Gear. In Metal Gear Solid, Snake makes a mention of the Iditarod dog sled race being a few days from the current date, and it falling on a Saturday (i.e. he said something along the lines of "I have to be in Anchorage next Saturday" during the briefing, and Campbell mentions the Iditarod), which is indeed which day it is on this year (March 5, 2005). In the Tanker, the upload computer has the date, which is sometime in November, potentially the 7th, but I don't recall offhand. The Plant is obvious since Rose keeps asking Jack what tomorrow is.

Given that the "Sons of Big Boss" were born in 1972 (as is stated in the end timeline of MGS3, it does not say 1973), that would make Solid Snake and Liquid Snake both 18-19 during the first Gulf War, and thus "just a kid". This is mentioned in both versions of the game, i.e. the original Playstation release in 1998, and the Twin Snakes release. Given that the game was developed prior to 1998, it was undoubtedly referring to the conflict in 1991. All three Snakes are 37 in the Plant chapter of Metal Gear Solid 2 (although Liquid is dead).

Granin's "American friend" is Otacon's grandfather. The radio conversation with SIGINT following that meeting pretty much confirms this, when SIGINT mentions a paper on a bipedal tank written by a scientist whose name he can't quite remember, stating "Emmerson, Heinrich?", if I recall correctly.

In any case, the Plant chapter is without a doubt in April of 2009. The date on the Tanker chapter is rather explicitly given on the computer, not to mention that Raiden makes constant reference to Shadow Moses being four years prior. And Shadow Moses is in 2005 given that following the boss battle with the Cyborg Ninja, it is revealed in the subsequent codec conversation that Gray Fox died six years prior in Zanzibar Land. And Metal Gear 2 states rather explicitly that it occurs on Christmas Eve, 1999.

A few more things of note. When Liquid says "You're drowning in time" in the American version, a more literal translation of the Japanese line makes a specific reference to accelerated aging due to the Snakes' status as clones. In addition, note that the Snakes were 33 years old in 2005, when Solidus Snake was the President. The Constitutional requirement to be President is 35 years old. Therefore, it does not seem unreasonable to conclude that the Patriots made it appear to the general public that "George Sears" was older than 35, and "George Sears" complied by dying his hair gray or whatever to make himself appear older, hence his appearing to be older looking than Solid Snake despite them being triplets.

Lastly, Hideo Kojima stated that he would be contradicting a few minor facts from prior games with Metal Gear Solid 3. Among these is Liquid stating that Big Boss was in his "late fifties when his copies were created", and the Metal Gear 2 manual stating that Big Boss lost his eye in the eighties.