Personally, I'd have to say that 'society' goes in a circle rather than plumeting down (or rising up for that matter). Some might call it a downward spiral, and in a way that might be true. I think we tend to repeat past mistakes in new, and oft-times worse ways.

Sure, some things are 'better', but not in every country. And where some things HAVE improved quite a bit, there always seems to have been a price paid that made it not quite worth it. (IMO and e.g.: The more freedom achived, the less moral balance we have. Not that 'freedom' is bad in and of itself. Its quite good as I'm sure all would agree...)

Some kinda famous guy once said something about society, or government more specifically... One Henry Kissinger said something to the effect of:

"Every civilization that has ever existed has ultimately collapsed...History is a tale of efforts that failed, of aspirations that weren’t realized .*.*. So, as a historian, one has to live with a sense of the inevitability of tragedy.”

This guy was a pretty 'big-picture' thinker I take it.

I also simply think that people only accept there is mroe crime because htey experience it first hand. Your wallet was stolen, does that immediately mean there is more crime or less empathy? And the whole thing about people walking in fear about being mugged so they only keep a few dollars on them, and huge fear of big city assaults? I'm pretty sure that you have a distorted view.

I lived in Plano,Tx until January of this year, and now I live in Denton,Tx. About my fifteenth b-day, my friends took me to a 'club' in Downtown Dallas(don't know if you can really call it a club when 15 year olds can get in, was a POS). Now if you don't know, Dallas is sort of known for being a scary ass palce with gang shootings and robberies all the time, and downtown dallas, makes the rest of it look like a nursery. Despite the well known reputation this area had, no one walked in fear, there was no "OMG what if some gang coems and rapes me? wha would I do?!" histerical screaming, jsut people, enjoying life and having fun. Of course these were the people going next door to a real club with lots and lots of booze, but hey. Every weekend I go to downtown dallas, go to one club or another, and parking is hell down in deep ellum, often times you will ahve to park a block or a few away, and walk it. And it's seriosuly one of those clichè scenes for when people meet the Batman. Every other streetlamp is burned out, the ones that do work flicker rediculously, and theres bound to be atleast 2 groups of people in 2 different allyways smoking something(generally lots of somethings) and who glare at you the entire time you're in view. Still, never once in 5 years of walking alone down this street have I ever been mugged, and I look like an easy target. I'm not exactly cut and ripped, I look like that guy who gets bullied in high school(luckily I'm not though :p ) But my point is, that yes, Dallas has a HUGE crime rate, but not near as big as news companies and gossip make it out to be. Now, when I can say that the crime rate of Dallas,Tx isn't as big as people think it is, and be serious, then no city ahs got issues as big as they make them otu to be, and seriously, its a wallet. Yea you'll have to go get a new Dl, SSn card(if you kept it on you) cehcking or credit cards, and yea its a hassel, but that doesn't mean people have lost all empathy, or society is going downhill.

And Hennry Kissinger is also wrong(keep reading), not every society has in fact fallen. Now, in the future it is highly likely that his statement will hold true, but England is still around. They've conformed and switched their government, rose to and fell from 'world power' status; but they're still there, they keep adjusting to the times. And as long as people are willing to change what they love to return its glory, then every society has a chance. Also, I don't believe taht every society has collapsed, they have been forced to abandon their city/territory from time to time, they ahve switched rulership and laws, but not all has collapsed. They simply evolved. I'm ironically sounding rather optimistic about all this, so I guess its a good day, but I understand my view won't be shared by all, in fact I doubt anyone will agree with me on the society thing, but just know that without evolution we would not be here. Not necesarily evolution on a genetic lvl, but our technology has evolved, so would you say the day of the radio is dead sicne now we have xm? I say no, the radio simply changed itself to adapt to people;s needs, so now it has xm as well. Think of society like the radio, we adapt to meet new challeneges, some say the old way died out, I say we simply added to it.

Que es Veritas?
What is truth?

I think America has gone in to a downward spiral since the introduction of rap and the gangsta lifestyle (I'm not saying this to be racist or anything just here me out)

Ever since capping cops and whores became "cool" and mainstream, every single kid wants to do it. Shooting people is not cool at all. But that's the message that is given by America's culture. Kids look up to these people and are the best thing ever because they think they've actually done these things.

Of cource they are not telling the truth. They all have the same basic story: "I left the mob to start rapping" or something to that effect. What the hell kinda crap mob were they a part of. Real gangs don't allow their members to leave. Unless they're dead. and these people are clearly not dead so how could they have ever been a part of any good mob?

That's Strike one

We all know that shooting cops and whores is bad unless you're playing GTA of course :p Anyways, why would you shoot cops? They're there for our protection...unless they're courrupt but that's improbabal. So by shooting cops (or "singing" (if you could call it that) about it) you most likely did something naughty. Could have had something to do with the dead whore you just were "singing" about? Shooting cops or anybody isn't cool outside of the GTA world. By telling kids it's ok to shoot people isn't that sending the wrong message? I think some parents need to do some actual parenting before letting their kid listen to some guy tell their kids to have sex with a whore and then kill her.

That's strike 2

Here's the pitch...
once when I was in 4th grade I got fed up with not knowing anything about rap so one day I changed my radio setting to some music that sounded like rap...well as it turned out it was a spanish music station...to this day they still sound the same to me...(not that I have anything against spanish music I'm just making a point that rap sounds like a forigen language)

Strike out!

Why is America slipping and sliding? I think that the lifestyle of bling and guns has something to do with it.

the heroes of the kids today are lying to them and are advocating morally courrupt values. These kids are the future. As Bender would say "We're Boned."

Until next time,
Death by Stabbing

I think people are just becoming more nihilistic as society develops.
Or as a fictitious character better than I has said

If our society seems more nihilistic than that of previous eras, perhaps
this is simply a sign of our maturity as a sentient species. As our
collective consciousness expands beyond a crucial point, we are
at last ready to accept life's fundamental truth: that life's only
purpose is life itself.

-- Chairman Sheng-ji Yang,
"Looking God in the Eye"

I think you meant Quid Veritas est? if you wanted it in Latin. Anyway, part of Truth is Natural Law, which means there is a set morality/right and that certain things go against it (rape, murder, and theft for example).

PS Quoting a character from a video game is not a good way to back up your argument. And btw, don't get into nihilism, there's nothing there =p

*I got another one. Stay away from nihilism, it has nothing to offer. Damn I'm clever.

Do you honestly believe that shooting cops is cool inside the GTA world? Why on earth would you even talk about that game, it a horrible waste of time and money. You run around and all you can do is kill,shoot, steal, and other highly illegal, and in most cases highly improbable things. People only enjoy it because it allows them to do things they can't normally do in real life, but still. You said thatp arents need to actually od more parenting, If anyone disagrees with that then you're a moron. Parents haven't been parents in ages (in most cases, not all). They rely on TV and high tech gedgets to raise their kids, then bitch and moan when the TV does somethign htey find offensive. But back to the intigration of htese two topics, parnts don't teach, kids have fun on GTA, kid doesn't know fact from fiction, kid plays out GTA with his school buddies and his daddy's handgun. GTA to blaim? Nope. Parent's to blaim? hell yes! So despite my optimism earlier, if htere is in fact a downward spiral in society, its due ot the parents, and if you are soon on your way to becommign one, raise your kid, don't liekt a bad mixture of barney and GTA do it for you...

Firstly, Synk, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Unless, perhaps, I was CroTeam. He said it pretty well too.

Anyway:
I love how this statement is made without any backing, whatsoever. It's just "There's natural (moral) law because I say so." You do that a lot, Sessh.

Show me proof of this natural law, of yours. Show me proof that the universe has morality. Show me that animals don't rape and kill each other. Show me that dolphins don't have gangbangs. Show me that ancient humans didn't force cripples and blind people to fight as COMEDY acts. Show me something beyond your personal beliefs to back this up. A belief without any kind of evidence doesn't belong in a discussion.

If there's a 'Natural' morality, it's either extremely utilitarian, to the point of being sickening, or has never been truly observed. Which, when you think about it, would make it pretty unnatural, eh?

Show me proff beyond your personal belief that there isn't a natural law of right and wrong? And please do not compare humans to beasts, I hope that we have moved beyond that. Are you saying that you don't feel outraged/saddened/sickened each time you hear that some innocent person has been murdered, or raped? Are you saying that if for some unfathomable reason the government made rape and murder legal, taht you would believe that nothing was wrong with that? The conscience is there for a reason.

Krylo, nor anyone else, can't prove an absolute negative. And I don't think it the opposite should be expected. The burden of proof is on the one saying there is a "natural law of right and wrong".

If there is a natural law, why is it dependent on people being aware of it? How can it be lost? If it is in fact "natural" and not dependent on any artificial norm (cultural or legal), that is. If it is dependent on a so-called Truth to apply, how is it a natural law? Even if we exclude "beasts", humans do break that "natural law" all the time.

That people have to be reminded that they are bound by something to be bound by something only shows that this thing doesn't really bind them at all: only the unfounded belief that there is a natural law make people obey a conception of a natural law.

Edit: That particular videogame character makes damn good points.

in fair arguement, this is something that cannot be proved or un proved. if someone is left alone their entire lives away from society and suddenly sees it, will he be sickened by what we have done? will his sense of morality have sprung into existance alone? since it would be inhumane to do that, call this one a draw so no flaming happens.

so speaks the temp admin.