An open discussion on solutions to used game market

[Aerozord]

This is something I have wanted to do for awhile, but mostly fear of flaming stopped me. So I hope people will follow the rules and we can get an actual dialogue going here.

First is the point, used game market is hurting the industry and I hope we can discuss a compromise between developers and consumers to atleast lessen the impact. Next are the rules for this discussion

1. No talk about pirating: while similar arguments they are not the same. You can argue good pirating does by giving access to third world countries, those that cant afford games, or people to try before they buy. If someone gets a used game, they definitely can afford games (just less) and definitely will not be buying the full version.

2. You have a right to sell: No potential solution can deny the owner of a game from selling their copy. The copy must also be functional, but can be diminished. Something like codes for unlocking bonus items is still ok as long as the person can play through the game proper just fine. But must be possible to sell/share your copy

3. Developer has a right to profit: On the other end developer has a right to get profit from those that play their game, or to be more exact some option. Either a motivation to buy the game new, or some way to still get money post-retail.

4. Compromise: Not going to lie, this will hurt anyone whose preference is to buy most games used. We are looking for compromise, if someone can find a win-win great, but as a consumer you have to be willing to make a few concessions for the sake of the medium.

5. No outsider intervention: Could all these issues be fixed if re-sellers just kicked a few bucks to the developer for each sale? Of course, but thats not going to happen. Any solution must be something the developer/producer can do that the consumer feels is fair.

There is a 6th rule, thats in abit of a quasi state. It would be nice to have something that keeps retailers happy, but anything that cuts into their ability to resell they will be against so I simply doubt that is possible.

To help get things started here is a good video on the matter

Though I do not personally think their idea would work. Most gamers I think, despite it being cheaper, would still be upset that entire play modes weren't available. People are rather vain though, maybe if it was purely cosmetic features like the hats in TF2 it might work better.

[Meister]

It's not much of an open discussion if your ground rules (which, incidentally, no one's going to be held to follow in any official way here) exclude several options that many people feel are a legitimate compromise right from the start, is it?

[Jagos]

Used game market is hurting the industry? Are you sure? The fact that I can resell my version of Gears of War 1 as credit for Gears of War 2 is hurting a developer who can make updates to the older game? Or use that older game as a means to signal a game series you enjoy and put money down on the newest game?

[Kim]

If developers are actually interested in getting me to buy new, they'll has digital versions available on release for a price that is less than the price at a store.

That is all. Problem solved.

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by Meister

It's not much of an open discussion if your ground rules (which, incidentally, no one's going to be held to follow in any official way here) exclude several options that many people feel are a legitimate compromise right from the start, is it?

No I dont see how those exclude compromise options. Since the rules that eliminate options are the ones about completely denying developer revenue and completely removing the option of resale. Those aren't compromises

Originally Posted by Jagos

Used game market is hurting the industry? Are you sure? The fact that I can resell my version of Gears of War 1 as credit for Gears of War 2 is hurting a developer who can make updates to the older game? Or use that older game as a means to signal a game series you enjoy and put money down on the newest game?

because someone is choosing to buy that old version over a new one. In addition the issue are not those that wait for years to pick up a new game. The big threat are those that buy a game launch day, play for a week, then sell it. Even then that wouldn't be too big of a deal, but second hand places actively push the 5-10 dollar cheaper version of the game which people often get because, hey it is 10 dollars cheaper. I dont blame the consumer for making that choice, its the reasonable one, but it also completely undercuts the developer. The used version only grows cheaper as early adopters sell their versions and thus used version becomes steadily the better buy.

Originally Posted by Liz

If developers are actually interested in getting me to buy new, they'll has digital versions available on release for a price that is less than the price at a store.

That is all. Problem solved.

I believe the issue with this method is the resulting price war. The reason prices are set is that even at current levels you need to sell about a million copies to break even. If they offer a cheaper digital version retailers will have to go cheaper to compete, thus digital version will have to go lower to match it. Even if that doesn't happen it would likely be the death of video game retailers. Of course to some that might not even matter, but to others it will.

The main problem being it doesn't help sales of the physical brand new discs. So while it is a valid new model, not one if you want to maintain the physical one. Might be where we are heading anyways though *shrugs*

[Kim]

The end of used games sales IS the death of video game retailers. There's a reason they push the used game sales thing so hard. It's how they actually make enough of a profit to keep going.

If you're going to have a discussion about the used games market, you have to recognized that it very much means the death of many if not most of these stores.

[Doc ock rokc]

The entire "Used game markets=no benefits" thing is bullshit In order for there to be a used game in the first place some one bought it new. IF we are talking a online game where they have to maintain servers, Someone has already payed for the server slot I just bought it from them.
The BS like In Mortal Kombat reboot where if i rent it/buy used I have to pay to play online just seems like money grubbing to me (specifically since they don't go on servers they go on P2P networks). I almost didn't buy Arkham city because of the catwoman nonsense (thankfully Rocksteady revealed they will release her for free later)
I am not rich I can't buy every game I come across new. I shouldn't have to have a shelf of games I hate to play sitting around somewhere. It's WELL within my rights to sell peace of shit/old games to get newer ones. and it's well within my rights to keep those old games for nostalgic purposes.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Do second hand bookstores hurt writers/publishers? Does buying used cars hurt the automative industry? How about cheap second hand dvds and the movie industry? There are many industries that have second hand markets, why is gamings any worse?

Hell, I've seen people push this arguement before now that even selling or lending games to friends is tentamount to piracy, because only one of those people bought the thing, which by that logic means that nobody should ever take a dvd around to somebody elses house and watch a movie with a group of friends because none of them bought that movie either. It's ridiculous to think this logic applies to one form of media and not another.

[Ramary]

The issue here is not really used games in themselves. There is is absoutely nothing wrong with it. The problem is Gamestop. Gamestop is the biggest chain of retailers in the largest game market. And it is a glorified pawn shop.

They push used games down your throat so hard if you go there, since all they have to do is bump the used game's price down a bit and bingo, more profit then selling it new. And since they are the largest retailer for games, not playing ball with them because of their practices is shooting yourself in the foot sale wise. If it was not for their business model, used games would not be such a big issue.

But even THEN publishers still blow used games out of proportions, it is basically the publishers and Gamestop trying to out greed the other.

[Betty Elms]

The retailers are the ones who choose to exploit the second hand market the way they do, they manufacture the problem. The practices of Barnes & Noble don't line up very neatly with the practices of Gamestop.

I know relatively little about this whole scenario, so this is less me offering my idea of a solution so much as me trying to figure out an idea of a solution, but I'd have few qualms with game developers utilizing their ability to prioritize downloads over hard copies as a means of establishing leverage over major retailers. They can assert their dominance, and from that position reach a compromise. They could go for Not-Allowed-Thing Number 5 (give us a percentage of your profits on used shit) and relegate the unregulated second hand market to independent stores. There's no reason for physical retailers of digital information in the 21st century to not live under the constant threat of death.

Ever since one guy in Olduvai figured "hey if I use a rock to cut up this animal, I won't need to ask Bob for help" we've been finding new and innovative ways to put people out of work, we just need to keep restructuring society around that fact.