Mass Effect Retrospective

Nique · 09-21-2012, 01:31 AM

Having just played ME2 and 3 back to back, I wanted to get some thoughts out about the series.

Overall this is a tightly constructed series. And by that I mean that the gameplay and story were put together coherently, which is enjoyable. Combat get's a little repetitive, but the story and side quests keep it all moving. Really a great leap for any RPG or sub genre thereof, even though there's room for improvement.

Also, to get into the actual roleplaying elements, playing as female Shepard really feels like a very different expeirence than playing as your usual male character in similar titles, and even more so than the usual female charecters. Like, fem Shepard is attractive, but this aint Lara Croft. Shepard feels like a real person and is never subject to the kind of male gaze issues games are known for.

The games are not exactly post feminist, however, and I am sad to say that I think the only reason fem Shepard isn't objectified is because if would be too difficult to change the dialog and camera that much. The character of Miranda doesn't exactly receive the same treatment here.

Anyway, I pretty much liked it and was even ok with ME3's ending. What about you?

greed · 09-21-2012, 01:53 AM

Good series, terrible terrible ending. Utter crap in basically every way to the point it retroactively taints the rest. Everything from Thessia onwards is just a dive into an endless abyss of shit

After this and DA2 I'm really looking forward to the trainwreck DA3's gonna be cause Bioware really seems to be doubling down on it's mistakes rather than learning.

Also on less ending notes the writers need to control themselves a bit better, it's really obvious who and what are some writer's pet things and the treatment they get comes off as kind of obnoxious (Hey Aria and Cerberus!). Also fuck human exceptionalism it's so boring and overused, give humans a weird gimmick for once. Just not more "We learn fast and adapt through HUMAN INGENUITY DETERMINATION AND BOOTSTRAPS". Shit is fucking obnoxious.

Azisien · 09-21-2012, 08:30 AM

Humans totally should have become the Reapers and killed the entire galaxy. It's probably a closer trait our species has than "we learn gud."

Mass Effect is a great game trilogy and should be remembered as such. ME3 ending was shit though and if you think otherwise, take your pick:
a) Denial
b) Underthinking it
c) Overthinking it

Ramary · 09-21-2012, 12:31 PM

Mass Effect one was pretty rad, although had a lot of issues, but it was excusable since it had a few new ideas and there was nothing wrong with the story.

Mass Effect 2, although my favorite, was a bit of a mess as far as story goes, with the side stories being really really good, but the main plot being complete rubbish and pretty much worthless as far as the trilogy's grand plot goes. It was in part because of old writers being phased out, and because of that it was also the last Bioware game I legitimately enjoyed (playing The Old Republic with Karesh is fun though because it is a mess, some parts are good but the rest is hilariously bad and a joy to make fun of. Everyone should find a friend to play with when it goes F2P.)

ME3 I have not played, I hated the demo, and about 85% of the story bits I seen I hated. Bioware is just another EA victim to me now sadly, and that will not change especially with all the people who left it already and the co-creators jumping ship.

Although the ending was bad, hey at least it was not Fallout 3 bad.

Solid Snake · 09-21-2012, 12:36 PM

The Extended Cut actually managed to take an ending that was atrocious, but at least kind of hysterical in how atrocious it was, into an ending that was even more atrocious because it wasn't even morbidly humorous anymore and it was clear Bioware took it seriously and thought they were providing a legit incredible ending when it actually was awful. Oh and, the Refusal ending was basically added solely to give Bioware a chance to say "Fuck you" to critics with legitimate points about the way the ending railroaded Shepard.

...That being said, I liked a lot of Mass Effect, even though I think criticism of ME3's ending actually tends to obscure the fact that ME and ME2 were noticeably better than ME3 from start to finish. Better characters, better character development, more choice and variety in decisions you can make in missions, more dialogue choices, Renegade and Paragon accumulation differences that merit replay, and at least the illusion that you were making crucial decisions that'd significantly change things.

To me the worst thing about ME3 wasn't even the ending per se, but the fact that major decisions like the Rachni and whether to destroy the Collectors Base didn't amount to jack shit in terms of changing things. The Rachni sub-mission in particular might be the lowest point of the game, in which they pretty much deliberately force Grunt into a deadly situation in hopes that your emotional roller-coaster ride over whether Grunt lives or dies obscures the fact that they completely botched the Rachni payoff for those who deliberated for hours on end over whether it'd be better to kill 'em off or save 'em.
...Absolutely killed the replay value. Hell, I'd be interested in replaying ME3 even with its color choice ending bullshittery if the differing ME and ME2 decisions paid off in any other discernible way.

ME3 does get the combat gameplay right. I'll give it that.

It also has the best moments with your love interest, though I really dislike the way ME3 tends to play favorites with the developer's favorite characters moreso than ME and ME2 did. In ME and ME2 it felt like every character benefited from equal love and attention, and if you liked one more than the other it was simply because their personalities were more attractive to you personally. By the time ME3 came about it was the Garrus and Liara Show and if you dared to like any character other than those two, you got shafted with subpar material and/or an unavoidable death scene.

EDIT: Disagree with Ramary regarding ME2's main plot, by the way. It wasn't quite as 'epic' as I had anticipated because where the fuck were the Reapers, but I sure as hell enjoyed the mechanics and tension of ME2's final Suicide Mission a lot more than any moment in ME3. They built the Suicide Mission up and it paid off perfectly.

Ramary · 09-21-2012, 01:37 PM

Oh yeah, I will say the Suicide mission was well done. The collectors were terrible though.

Ryong · 09-21-2012, 02:21 PM

I've only played the first Mass Effect and, while I had some issues with it - how your choices were either BE AN ASSHOLE or BE THE BEST PERSON EVER per usual, the way that the love interest was handled ( I left Kaiden to die and SUDDENLY THERE'S SEXUAL TENSION WITH ASHLEY FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER ) - I liked the game. I'd enjoy it more if not for the fact that some fights were rather bullshitty - I went with the heaviest armor + shotgun class and yet I couldn't do shit to most Krogans without resorting to GRENAAAAAAAAAAAADES.

Solid Snake · 09-21-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryong

I've only played the first Mass Effect and, while I had some issues with it - how your choices were either BE AN ASSHOLE or BE THE BEST PERSON EVER per usual, the way that the love interest was handled ( I left Kaiden to die and SUDDENLY THERE'S SEXUAL TENSION WITH ASHLEY FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER ) - I liked the game. I'd enjoy it more if not for the fact that some fights were rather bullshitty - I went with the heaviest armor + shotgun class and yet I couldn't do shit to most Krogans without resorting to GRENAAAAAAAAAAAADES.

If you continue playing subsequent titles, you'll find that the combat improves immensely (especially for Vanguards, coincidentally) at the cost of just about everything else.

Melfice · 09-21-2012, 02:52 PM

I actually was totally okay with the ending and the Extended Cut of Mass Effect 3.
Yeah, it's not the best, but holy shit. Defective product? That was totally a thing that was said that made no sense at all, and yet was massively embraced by a great deal of the community.
Extended Cut wasn't really needed in my opinion, but hey. I got a few extra shiny cutscenes. I'll take it.

Don't bother going "Melfice, you suck and have horrible taste." I got enough of that when I mentioned Dragon Age 2 was better than the first in every aspect but the fact that it was rushed.

So, really. Don't bother. (And I still feel that way regarding DA2, by the way.)

Bells · 09-21-2012, 06:10 PM

My issue with the ending is that they tried to make every ending legit... like, a lot of people were screaming for a hard to find "everybody survives and wins" ending, like some sort of ultimate prize... but in reality, that would just be taken as "The secret real ending"... and that's not what they were going for.

I loved ME2 and ME3. I fetl like i was mostly in control of my character. I felts like it was MY journey done MY way. even though the game seriously tries to shove you into somethings (it's not even funny just how badly Bioware assumes you'll be with Liara... while i was all the way with Tali)

The game has issues and problems, all do. But i enjoyed my time. The one thing i didn't enjoy about ME3 is that the ending never felt like My Journey. It felts like someone else was ending my story... maybe it all just crumbled under it's own weight.

ME2 is tons of fun, Suicide mission is simply a badass last level, the way those should be done in an epic space opera!

Now i just want another game to step into Mass Effect "Sci Fi RPG" Reign and take ti to the next level... i had enough elves and dwarves, give me some space shit!

09-21-2012, 12:36 PM	#5
Solid Snake Erotic Esquire Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,563	The Extended Cut actually managed to take an ending that was atrocious, but at least kind of hysterical in how atrocious it was, into an ending that was even more atrocious because it wasn't even morbidly humorous anymore and it was clear Bioware took it seriously and thought they were providing a legit incredible ending when it actually was awful. Oh and, the Refusal ending was basically added solely to give Bioware a chance to say "Fuck you" to critics with legitimate points about the way the ending railroaded Shepard. ...That being said, I liked a lot of Mass Effect, even though I think criticism of ME3's ending actually tends to obscure the fact that ME and ME2 were noticeably better than ME3 *from start to finish.* Better characters, better character development, more choice and variety in decisions you can make in missions, more dialogue choices, Renegade and Paragon accumulation differences that merit replay, and at least the illusion that you were making crucial decisions that'd significantly change things. To me the worst thing about ME3 wasn't even the ending per se, but the fact that major decisions like the Rachni and whether to destroy the Collectors Base *didn't amount to jack shit* in terms of changing things. The Rachni sub-mission in particular might be the lowest point of the game, in which they pretty much deliberately force Grunt into a deadly situation in hopes that your emotional roller-coaster ride over whether Grunt lives or dies obscures the fact that they completely botched the Rachni payoff for those who deliberated for hours on end over whether it'd be better to kill 'em off or save 'em. ...Absolutely killed the replay value. Hell, I'd be interested in replaying ME3 even with its color choice ending bullshittery if the differing ME and ME2 decisions paid off in any other discernible way. ME3 does get the combat gameplay right. I'll give it that. It also has the best moments with your love interest, though I really dislike the way ME3 tends to play favorites with the developer's favorite characters moreso than ME and ME2 did. In ME and ME2 it felt like every character benefited from equal love and attention, and if you liked one more than the other it was simply because their personalities were more attractive to you personally. By the time ME3 came about it was the *Garrus and Liara Show* and if you dared to like any character other than those two, you got shafted with subpar material and/or an unavoidable death scene. EDIT: Disagree with Ramary regarding ME2's main plot, by the way. It wasn't quite as 'epic' as I had anticipated because where the fuck were the Reapers, but I sure as hell enjoyed the mechanics and tension of ME2's final Suicide Mission a lot more than any moment in ME3. They built the Suicide Mission up and it paid off perfectly. __________________ *WARNING:* Snek's all up in this thread. Be prepared to read massive walls of text. Last edited by Solid Snake; 09-21-2012 at 12:40 PM.

09-21-2012, 06:10 PM	#10
Bells That's so PC of you Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: In a Server-sided Dimension where time is meaningless Posts: 10,490	My issue with the ending is that they tried to make every ending legit... like, a lot of people were screaming for a hard to find "everybody survives and wins" ending, like some sort of ultimate prize... but in reality, that would just be taken as "The secret real ending"... and that's not what they were going for. I loved ME2 and ME3. I fetl like i was mostly in control of my character. I felts like it was MY journey done MY way. even though the game seriously tries to shove you into somethings (it's not even funny just how badly Bioware assumes you'll be with Liara... while i was all the way with Tali) The game has issues and problems, all do. But i enjoyed my time. The one thing i didn't enjoy about ME3 is that the ending never felt like My Journey. It felts like someone else was ending my story... maybe it all just crumbled under it's own weight. ME2 is tons of fun, Suicide mission is simply a badass last level, the way those should be done in an epic space opera! Now i just want another game to step into Mass Effect "Sci Fi RPG" Reign and take ti to the next level... i had enough elves and dwarves, give me some space shit! __________________ *BELLS STORE : Clothes! You wear* them! Free US Shipping Subscription System? WTF?! Zazzle Black!**

09-21-2012, 08:30 AM	#3
Azisien wat Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,177	Humans totally should have become the Reapers and killed the entire galaxy. It's probably a closer trait our species has than "we learn gud." Mass Effect is a great game trilogy and should be remembered as such. ME3 ending was shit though and if you think otherwise, take your pick: a) Denial b) Underthinking it c) Overthinking it

09-21-2012, 12:31 PM	#4
Ramary HE OPENS THE DOOR TO HIS DARK PAST Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Some craphole Posts: 770	Mass Effect one was pretty rad, although had a lot of issues, but it was excusable since it had a few new ideas and there was nothing wrong with the story. Mass Effect 2, although my favorite, was a bit of a mess as far as story goes, with the side stories being really really good, but the main plot being complete rubbish and pretty much worthless as far as the trilogy's grand plot goes. It was in part because of old writers being phased out, and because of that it was also the last Bioware game I legitimately enjoyed (playing The Old Republic with Karesh is fun though because it is a mess, some parts are good but the rest is hilariously bad and a joy to make fun of. Everyone should find a friend to play with when it goes F2P.) ME3 I have not played, I hated the demo, and about 85% of the story bits I seen I hated. Bioware is just another EA victim to me now sadly, and that will not change especially with all the people who left it already and the co-creators jumping ship. Although the ending was bad, hey at least it was not Fallout 3 bad.

09-21-2012, 01:37 PM	#6
Ramary HE OPENS THE DOOR TO HIS DARK PAST Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Some craphole Posts: 770	Oh yeah, I will say the Suicide mission was well done. The collectors were terrible though.

09-21-2012, 02:21 PM	#7
Ryong Professional Threadkiller Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil Posts: 3,798	I've only played the first Mass Effect and, while I had some issues with it - how your choices were either BE AN ASSHOLE or BE THE BEST PERSON EVER per usual, the way that the love interest was handled ( I left Kaiden to die and SUDDENLY THERE'S SEXUAL TENSION WITH ASHLEY FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER ) - I liked the game. I'd enjoy it more if not for the fact that some fights were rather bullshitty - I went with the heaviest armor + shotgun class and yet I couldn't do shit to most Krogans without resorting to GRENAAAAAAAAAAAADES.