The End of The Nuclear Age?

[Bells]

And yes, i had to check myself to no spell it "nuklear"...

So, Germany is jumping off of the Nuclear Train, and now so is Japan (not official yet, but the people are already claiming for it, so it's just a matter of time). 2 of the major Industrial Superpowers in the world are turning away from Nuclear sources of power.

So, do you guys think this is the turning point where our global economy starts to really pick up steam and direction towards a new, sustainable, more advanced form of Power?

I mean, once those countries stop using Nuclear Energy, they WILL have quite a big gap in their energy supply that they will need to fill with something. And the main reason they were using Nuclear in the first place was because it supplied the right amount at the right cost...

So, if they trully turn away from this source, this could very well mean that you will see in the next decade a huge improvement in research and funding of alternative power sources (wind and solar, no doubt). There will be a demand, and now they will need a supply.

More money and Demand, means more corporative interest and more research, more research means more advances in short and long term, and more Advances means cheaper and better production. So on and on until it's capable of supply to the demand.

Being one of the leaders in the science and financial world, the USA down the line will eventually try to tap that. Maybe it's the opportunity that was missing to get off foreign oil at last?

Either way, this is kinda exciting. I'm not sure yet, but it feels like we're moving through a scientific shift that could actually alter the shape and form of modern life if the global economy actually starts to physically change towards Eletric and Solar power in large industrial scale... this could be interesting if it indeed happens.

Also of notice: That also means a entire new landscape of Jobs, trade schools, professions and business opportunities that aren't really wide available today.

[Krylo]

Alternatively: They just build coal plants and fuck everything up.

[Magus]

Originally Posted by Krylo

Alternatively: They just build coal plants and fuck everything up.

This is exactly what I see the U.S. continuing to do in the face of the Japanese crisis, since it was exactly what it did in response to Three-Mile Island and Chernobyl.

Japan on the other hand if they made a commitment to getting rid of nuclear fission plants would probably follow through on it in the direction of wind and solar energy, just because Japan doesn't have a ton of coal lying around, plus a just a general movement in that culture towards things like public transportation, reducing waste, wind and solar power, etc.

I find Germany stating that they are going to completely get rid of it to be laughable, though, especially since they see no problem with continuing to buy it from neighbors which implies that they can't actually get rid of it 100% and meet their power needs.

I really think they and other countries should just use this crisis to try and make nuclear energy safer, or slowly phasing it out (for fission or other alternatives), instead of knee-jerkily saying, "we will have zero nuclear plants ASAP"

As for nuclear waste, I can't figure out why the space program isn't being used to shoot it into space. I'm presuming that isn't cost-effective in comparison to just storing it in Nevada, apparently, but it would get rid of it, for all intents and purposes.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Bells

So, do you guys think this is the turning point where our global economy starts to really pick up steam and direction towards a new, sustainable, more advanced form of Power?

Pfffhahahahahahahaa

[Arhra]

But... but thorium reactors!

To be blunt, solar and wind power won't do anything on their own. We need something that can provide a baseline load to balance electricity supply and demand. Solar and wind have unreliable generation capacity and their power generation profiles do not match the daily load profile for electricity demand.

You need something that can be tailored on demand to match the demand. You know, like coal fired or nuclear power plants. (Or natural gas or hydroelectricity, etc)

Fantastic advances in power storage technology could overcome this but that's got issues of its own.

[Sithdarth]

Photocatalysts. Essentially artificial photosynthesis. Light goes in hydrogen comes out. It's actually one of the things I will be working on as a lot of promising photocatalysts are novel functional oxides. (Did I mention I do actual research now.)

Well I mean there is that and then you know not being giant energy hogs and just general efficiency improvements all over.

Also this:

Maybe it's the opportunity that was missing to get off foreign oil at last?

Is laughably wrong. The electricity sector in the US is dominated by coal. Changing the way we generate electricity is going to do essentially nothing to change our dependence on foreign oil. It's like saying that your going to stop drinking by finding a replacement for tobacco. The only way the electricity sector will have any impact on foreign oil dependence is if we all suddenly started driving electric cars tomorrow.

[Bells]

Originally Posted by Arhra

But... but thorium reactors!

To be blunt, solar and wind power won't do anything on their own. We need something that can provide a baseline load to balance electricity supply and demand. Solar and wind have unreliable generation capacity and their power generation profiles do not match the daily load profile for electricity demand.

You need something that can be tailored on demand to match the demand. You know, like coal fired or nuclear power plants. (Or natural gas or hydroelectricity, etc)

Fantastic advances in power storage technology could overcome this but that's got issues of its own.

That's sorta the Paradigm of this whole discussion, isn't it? Right now, it's not a sustainable model. But if Nuclear stops being an option, you have to turn to Coal and Oil to pick up the slack, it may even work on short to mid term, but it's just not sustainable anymore in the long haul, so something else will eventually be needed, regardless of what it is.

So, at first, it's more of the same, but new technologies will have to emerge, specially in nations that don't want to become other nations bitches cause they don't have enough coal or oil to go forward and grow, so "making your own energy supply" does make sense. It's not viable right now (hell, to the best of my knowledge, it's not going to be viable for at least a good 20 years yet...) But large groups of scientist can make some pretty amazing stuff when they are needed and well funded.

[shiney]

Let me know what the oil conglomerates think about sustainable energy that doesn't have scaling cost based on dwindling supply, and get back to me on how likely it is the people of this planet will end up with anything remotely worthwhile. I mean, they love lining their pockets, and if they can't keep fucking the consumer with scarecrows about "it's all going to dry up soon" or whatever, then I can assume they aren't interested.

[Aldurin]

And the issue with switching to electricity is that not only does there need to be energy production research (hydropower is a great idea, and nuclear is better than fossil fuels as long as it isn't on Japanese standards), but with making electricity-powered vehicles viable (which would eliminate a heavy section of our oil needs) we would need more advancements in batteries and electric motors (freight trucks, trains and airplanes need a lot of power, especially when on a hill/taking off).

Even if that technology should come out, it will likely be expensive as hell and/or have a shorter lifespan than the cars people are already driving.

And then the transition issue gets worse because these cars will likely be lightweight and maintain the current smartcar standard of crushing like a tin can in the event of impacting a regular vehicle, so people will be put off by safety issues caused by the fact that everyone isn't driving these vehicles.

Convincing a company to start manufacturing electric cars despite all of this will make it a huge struggle to shrug off just the transportation section of oil dependence.

[rpgdemon]

Originally Posted by Aldurin

And the issue with switching to electricity is that not only does there need to be energy production research (hydropower is a great idea, and nuclear is better than fossil fuels as long as it isn't on Japanese standards)

Originally Posted by Aldurin

(hydropower is a great idea, and nuclear is better than fossil fuels as long as it isn't on Japanese standards)

Originally Posted by Aldurin

Japanese standards

Are higher than the standards we have here, since they're on the edge of the ring of fire. Even if that perfectly horrible tsunami was a 1/10,000 chance thing, given enough time, those disasters happen, and you can't really get around them.