d20 (D&D, Pathfinder, etc.): General Discussion, Help, and Fun

[tacticslion]

Welp, since the last thread is now on the... *quickly checks*... well, I guess it's not ON a page anymore (or is on the second, depending on what you're accounting is). Anyway, since the last general D&D thread has gone the way of the dodo - and I needed something, because I'm selfish that way -, I figured I'd open a new one! This one!

So to start us off, I'mma askin' fo' sum' help all up in he'ah!

So I've got this character with nearly godlike power over the nature of outsiders he can bind. He also likes fey. He happens to be building a kingdom.

He wants to bind lots of fiends (he finds them... distasteful), annihilate them with powers of GOOD, and use their left-over ashes* (this is not entirely accurate) to create new outsiders/fey. Basically, he's going to create axiomatic half-celestial fey (of various kinds) and axiomatic half-fey celestials (lantern archons, mostly) out of predominantly demons (and a few devils, as well as a fair number of daemons - in the end, the kind doesn't really matter). He's got all the power he needs to do this, I just don't have all the information.

Fun but semi-irrelevant detailsThese fey will be part of a greater "hive mind" - they don't actually share a mind, but rather share alignment, concepts, information, and ideas via what amounts to a great web-work of thoughts which they are all constantly reading and aware of. This web-work is not intrusive, meaning they it doesn't actually take up their attention. They are also aware of the alignment and current status of all other members.

Most (but certainly not all) of them will hopefully be bound into specific locales, such as dryads into trees; blodeuwedds into fertile plains (flowers, grass, and shrubs); miengu into pools and springs; and the like.

My problem is this: I've exhausted my knowledge of fey creatures. And fey creatures are not really compiled into a single, pleasant, easy-to-use reference guide either. Especially not those presented in Pathfinder.

Now to clarify, I've got most of the 3.X D&D stuff that'd have fey kinds in it. Books-wise, I'm missing Stormwrack and Incarnum, as well as anything published around the time of the Tome of Swords or the early 3.0 era, but I've got a rather large library of older books. I don't have (many) adventure paths/adventures/etc, however.

Mostly what I'm looking for isn't D&D stuff, however, but Paizo stuff, especially Pathfinder. The game is in Golarion (the Pathfinder world) and is specifically the Kingmaker Campaign, so, you know, if you guys've played it, please no spoilers. I've made ridiculously large knowledge checks, so general kinds of fey are great, regardless of their kinds, but notsomuch the specific (named) NPCs.

So, I need you guys to use your epic knowledge of nerdy places and people to gather information for me! I need you to reach out to your resources, your hidden caches of information, and your vast network of contacts to enlighten me on the nature of Golarion's fey! Or, you know, just shoot the breeze, telling funny or interesting stories or asking for help yourself; you know, your choice.

Help me nuklearforums, your my only hope*!

*I'm not actually asking for any information on Starwars.

Almost-immediate edit: I'm aware of the "Oread" from the D&D 3.X Fiend Folio - it is to mountains what dryads are to trees - as well as the Pathfinder Beastiary 2 "Oread" - basically Paizo's equivalent of an earth genasi. I'm also wondering if anyone knows if Paizo replaced the first Oread with some other creature/name, or just kind of left it alone.
Also: don't feel limited to environment-themed fey. I'm planning tons of grigs, sprites, nymphs, and the like too. Fun times.

[Vauron]

Well, if you don't mind homebrew than you may want to look at this thread, as it contains a few dozen fey. Granted, some are fey that are already present in DnD, just done differently. Also, it is for 3.5, not Pathfinder. Still, you may find some use in it.

[Azisien]

General Discussion and Fun: So I bought the Pathfinder handbook. I think it's the best PnP handbook I've ever had. I'm probably going to give it my personal crown over d20 Modern (which up until this point I preferred over D&D 3.X, 4E, M&M)

Already ordered the Pathfinder Advanced Players Guide, but only getting those two books because the rest are pretty useless crap.

[Pip Boy]

I played in a Pathfinder game a couple of months back and since have fallen in love with the system. Magic seems to have a lot fewer "Save or die" effects (replaced with "Save or lots of damage"). Physical attackers have recieved a lot of buffs in the form of new, interesting feats that make a lot more combat options, and melee classes have all recieved new class features to make them more interesting.

I like to consider it to be what D&D 3.5 was to D&D 3.0. Lots of balance issues have been taken care of, and everything old has been changed enough to make it fresh and interesting.

They've also combined a lot of redundant skills. Listen, Search, and Spot are combined into Perception while Balance, Tumble, and Jump are now Acrobatics. Gather information is now just a part of Diplomacy, and they've changed the way Class vs Cross Class skills work so that Cross-Class skills aren't so wasteful.

Exp costs for spells and item creation have all been replaced with an appropriate price in gold pieces. So your wizard in the party will never have to worry about being five levels below everyone else just because he's been taking the time and energy to make everyone's fancy pants for them.

The "Master Craftsman" feat allows non-spellcasters to learn to use magical components in item creation and essentially make magic arms and armor despite not knowing how to cast spells.

Azisien, as for the rest of the books being crap, I'd recommend Ultimate Magic as well. Aside from adding a lot of classes and feats, it has archetype variants of preexisting classes that allow you to give up X class feature in order to gain Y class feature instead.

Last I heard, there are also a pathfinder book on Psionics and a pathfinder expansion called Ultimate Combat still in their beta testing phase.

Also, if you're running a pathfinder game, its worth grabbing the DM screen. Its got shit loads of charts all over it that are usually the things that send you looking through the manual mid-game, so I find it really helps speed up gameplay.

[Azisien]

Originally Posted by Pip Boy

Azisien, as for the rest of the books being crap, I'd recommend Ultimate Magic as well. Aside from adding a lot of classes and feats, it has archetype variants of preexisting classes that allow you to give up X class feature in order to gain Y class feature instead.

Last I heard, there are also a pathfinder book on Psionics and a pathfinder expansion called Ultimate Combat still in their beta testing phase.

Also, if you're running a pathfinder game, its worth grabbing the DM screen. Its got shit loads of charts all over it that are usually the things that send you looking through the manual mid-game, so I find it really helps speed up gameplay.

Originally Posted by tacticslion

The one I'm playing now, for example, is called Kingmaker. It specifies how to build a kingdom from scratch: exploring land, gathering resources, building cities and buildings, claiming more land, how successful your kingdom is, how difficult it is to control, and special events which may or may not affect or afflict your kingdom. Each of these have their own, fully-fleshed rules and, despite how complicated it seems, they carefully and successfully streamline it so that it's realistic (enough, anyway) and rather simple to follow through with. For example, land is divided into hexes - six-sided figures set in alternating rows or columns - and each hex is roughly twelve miles across. This is the fundamental unit of land they divide the map into. You must explore and clear the hex before you can claim it - both steps gaining you certain amounts of XP, and either or both can be adventures, should you choose (or should the AP describe it). The rules continue from there, but since I don't wish to steal from Paizo, I'll stop there.

Gee thanks guys I'm so glad to be $100 poorer (and 500% more amazing) because of this thread making me think twice as much about why I don't own enough Pathfinder. UNTIL TODAY:



Edit: Also looking at this Kingmaker stuff and it looks a bit bulky to add into a custom campaign but I think I might do it when I run one.

[tacticslion]

One other thing that Paizo is great at is AP's - Adventure Paths.

Now, some of you might be saying "that's a lazy-man's way!", but honestly it's a great blessing for those of us that literally don't have the time to make completely unique ones, and what's more they have really great stuff introduced by way of their Adventure Paths. Each one I've picked up has a new special mechanic that's added to make each AP that much more unique. Each new mechanic is tailored specifically for that campaign, but is applicable to other campaigns as well!

The one I'm playing now, for example, is called Kingmaker. It specifies how to build a kingdom from scratch: exploring land, gathering resources, building cities and buildings, claiming more land, how successful your kingdom is, how difficult it is to control, and special events which may or may not affect or afflict your kingdom. Each of these have their own, fully-fleshed rules and, despite how complicated it seems, they carefully and successfully streamline it so that it's realistic (enough, anyway) and rather simple to follow through with. For example, land is divided into hexes - six-sided figures set in alternating rows or columns - and each hex is roughly twelve miles across. This is the fundamental unit of land they divide the map into. You must explore and clear the hex before you can claim it - both steps gaining you certain amounts of XP, and either or both can be adventures, should you choose (or should the AP describe it). The rules continue from there, but since I don't wish to steal from Paizo, I'll stop there.

In another (I'm given to understand) there are rules for gaining the trust of an overly suspicious (with good reason!) town, and in another rules for competing teams attempting to be the first to locate, explore, and claim an ancient ruined city! Further, they expand their monster lists, and, honestly, that's what I'm hoping to find from you guys. While they attempt to compile most of their monsters into the Bestiaries, some slip through the cracks, and I was interested if any of you knew fey from the APs that didn't end up in the Bestiaries - I know of three or four.

In any event, this next month is my character's "birthday" (not his real Birthday, as the GM pulled some chicanery to get me here!)... and also the month that I finally gain enough land to be raised from a Duke (and my country from a Duchy) to a full-fledged King (and Kingdom)! I started out as a Baron! Let's Go, Baron!* (hey, it's funny to me)

Currently, I've got four Guardian Spirits (basically Shield Archons with Cassians as their helms) in each of my three cities, the fourth being a super-amalgam spirit in an important, but remote and well-hidden terribly magical location hidden amidst some mountains. Fun story next time (maybe), after someone else updates with their stuff!

EDIT: How rude of me! Vauron, I didn't even thank you! Home-brew is up to GM, but that list is actually really great, and has come in more than a little handy. So, thank you, Vauron!

[tacticslion]

Azi: I'm a helper! Also, that looks so great!

Personally, as someone who LOVES casters (and all their broken, broken goodness), I have a deep and abiding longing for Ultimate Magic. But. Ultimate Combat has gunslingers. Which might be completely stupid, from what I'm hearing. Nonetheless. Want. Babies take priority over books financially, however.

The one thing I don't like about Kingmaker (so far, mind, I'm a player) is that the rules for each part are spread across the (first four, so far) modules. First adventure: exploration. Second adventure: kingdom building. Third adventure: ... uh, more kingdom building (but not really any new rules in that one, just a great story). Fourth adventure (I think, as it's only been hinted at by the GM): mass combat (local). I'm guessing adventure number five has something like mass combat (wide scale) or something. I've no real idea what adventure number six has, if anything - maybe something like extending the kingdom to extraplanar locales (like the First World)?

Anyway, in a fashion it makes sense, as that's pretty much how the rules come into play in the campaign, and also it makes you purchase the AP. It's frustrating because it makes you purchase the AP. Serpent's Skull is similar in that while it's two parts of travel and ruin exploration/claiming are split into two books... that's two books, not four or five.

Anyway, the game itself is a blast. The rules themselves are easy to use. One of the BEST things is the player's guide - which you can download for free from Paizo - that gives you blank hex maps (make your own world maps!), blank city grids (make your own cities!), and a blank country sheet (make your own country! ... wait, that's kind of the point of all this), though it doesn't tell you how to use them. I've printed out ten city grids, as I'm planning on expanding my (almost all-natural) cities extensively!

I've already got one city that's three districts wide* (the capital), another that's one full district*(a recent acquisition, now fully fleshed out under our care), another that's kind-of-a-district* (sort of - a long-time acquisition that we've accepted on the grounds that we can't do anything to it until later because of PLOT), and one that's being built right now* (the future "city of the gods" where Erastil is actually the foremost honored, but many non-evil - especially good - deities will be honored there as well). I've got (distant) plans for an underwater district* (an extension of my capital, for the merfolk I've planted near my capital to live), one on a forbidden island far away* (a future "arcane" city), and another in a fortress on the edge of my territory* (a future fortress city). All that will be in the distant future. I've also got plans for smaller settlements along the way nestled into mountains and other places for special boons to the country. Everything else is either farms or mountains! And roads* (actually, this is going to be a sacred thing in my country, a kind of literalized metaphor for the Path of Light)!

Personally, one of my favorite parts about the campaign so far has been the time I SPOILERED!punked out the 11,000 year old lich!

Anyway, baby Ben is up, so I'm away!

[Azisien]

Originally Posted by tacticslion

Personally, as someone who LOVES casters (and all their broken, broken goodness), I have a deep and abiding longing for Ultimate Magic. But. Ultimate Combat has gunslingers. Which might be completely stupid, from what I'm hearing. Nonetheless. Want. Babies take priority over books financially, however.

IMO, Pathfinder does a fantastic take on firearms. Only systems I've tried using firearms in are 4E (house rule I think? At least when I played it) and d20 Modern. I'd say with ease that Pathfinder handles firearms just as well as d20 Modern, which is built around them as a core, and its really easy to slot them into your games based on the tech level of your fantasy world. Firearms are CRAZY expensive and not even overpowered or anything.

Gunslinger is hilarious, since it uses grit to fuel its abilities. I'm noticing a possible criticism of Pathfinder might be how much it borrows from pop culture with references like that all over the place, but I personally think that's a plus to the series. Witches with cackle and broom flight? Count me in!

Originally Posted by tacticslion

The one thing I don't like about Kingmaker (so far, mind, I'm a player) is that the rules for each part are spread across the (first four, so far) modules. First adventure: exploration. Second adventure: kingdom building. Third adventure: ... uh, more kingdom building (but not really any new rules in that one, just a great story). Fourth adventure (I think, as it's only been hinted at by the GM): mass combat (local).

Yeah the rules are so spread out I'm actually not going to buy Kingmaker, but I did slice out the rules segments to use them in my own campaign. I'm actually really looking forward to it, the level of elegance in their mass combat rules is almost off the charts. So simple, so effective. When I told my potential PCs about including those rules they all went apeshit, too, because we've all been enthralled by Mount & Blade: Warband in the past, and those rules basically turn Pathfinder into Pen & Paper: Warband.

[tacticslion]

Thought I had a few moments... then I didn't, now I do, so here's a post!

Originally Posted by Grandmaster_Skweeb

I continue to be awesome in most ways.

Thanks! It doesn't have gunslinger stuff (it seems to be missing both of the ultimates), but it's quite cool and useful!

Originally Posted by Azisien

Pathfinder's great at firearms, fantastic and funny references in abilities, and no Kingmaker AP but TOTALLY the ruleset for me!

It's good to hear at least one person really like them. Basically (so far) on the Paizo forums I've really only read people complaining about it being stupid... or people who like it while trying not to irritate the people who complain about it being stupid.

I LOVE the references. I mean, when I found out that "cackle" (among others) actually has in-game effects, I thought that was the best thing since individually wrapped cheese slices - and those are the best things ever! I do have to wonder, though... is that grit the gunslinger uses, only an illusion? Or is it true...

I understand not wanting to buy an entire AP for just a few rules. That said, I wholly recommend getting the players' guide (free PDF at Paizo.com) to supplement whatever game you're playing. The rules are great enough that I'm planning on using several of them together in a game I'm planning (and have been planning this one a long* time... and likely will plan longer still, given BABY!).

I plan use a) the travel mechanic from Serpent's Skull, b) the city-exploration mechanic from Serpent's Skull, c) and the kingdom building mechanic from Serpent's Skull. I might even use the Trust mechanic from the upcoming Carrion Crown that I've heard about but haven't seen, yet. The idea is that the PCs become local heroes, eventually get called to a vast, important exploration, and (hopefully) end up rulers of an ancient "ruined" city that they can then expand upon to begin creating an empire. I'm looking forward to using (and abusing) the Mass Combat Rules whenever they come out. I mean, my country already can't fail its checks unless it makes a natural 1 - and that's without any rulers! So even if we all kick the bucket, my country should be able to continue to survive, which, in the River Kingdoms, is saying a great deal!

*No, seriously, it's kind of silly. Each time we get close to me being able to implement this thing, something comes up and I can't. Then another one starts in the meantime. Then I find some cool new rule or specific aspect that should be added and I tinker while playing another game. Lather rinse repeat! It's fun, though. I'm creating quite a base campaign world for myself!

[Azisien]

Originally Posted by tacticslion

It's good to hear at least one person really like them. Basically (so far) on the Paizo forums I've really only read people complaining about it being stupid... or people who like it while trying not to irritate the people who complain about it being stupid.

Not sure how people would think it stupid unless they don't like the pop culture references. They dislike firearms? But there's like a whole page asking right out: DO YOU want firearms in your campaign? Does it fit? There's a progression of different firearms technology levels (including NONE) that could occur. Divide/multiply/restrict firearms based on these levels. Complaining about optional rules never made much sense to me.

Originally Posted by tacticslion

I plan use a) the travel mechanic from Serpent's Skull, b) the city-exploration mechanic from Serpent's Skull, c) and the kingdom building mechanic from Serpent's Skull. I might even use the Trust mechanic from the upcoming Carrion Crown that I've heard about but haven't seen, yet. The idea is that the PCs become local heroes, eventually get called to a vast, important exploration, and (hopefully) end up rulers of an ancient "ruined" city that they can then expand upon to begin creating an empire. I'm looking forward to using (and abusing) the Mass Combat Rules whenever they come out. I mean, my country already can't fail its checks unless it makes a natural 1 - and that's without any rulers! So even if we all kick the bucket, my country should be able to continue to survive, which, in the River Kingdoms, is saying a great deal!

Wait, does Serpent's Skull have a second kingdom building ruleset? I thought all that was in Kingmaker?