Should Comedians Be Held Accountable For The Things That They Say?

[Geminex]

We should.... criticize people... for having different senses of humor?

We're holding the people who make the jokes accountable. Why not the people who laugh at them? Is going "I say, I say, I say, the other day I saw a BLACK GUY eating WATERMELON!" any more offensive than laughing at that?

In other words, Be a dick, and be shameless about it, don't be a dick, then blame others for calling you a dick and go "what? YOU'RE the one being a dick! can't you take a joke?"

I totally agree with this. It happens. Far too often. But since we can't outlaw "Being a Dick", the only way to stop this kind of behavior is by influencing society directly. This may be done through mind-control apparati, though I believe various other media can also be quite effective.

Different people are different, there are some things that tie us all together, but you get into trouble when you start believing you can apply your perspective to everyone's experiences and get satsifying results.

Well, I think that in the "US vs THEM" mindframe, what really makes someone "THEM" is that certain values held by "US" cannot be applied to them, or that they just don't measure up to these values. This in turn is caused by "US" being unwilling to recognize "THEIR" values. If it were "JUST US" that'd be ideal, because there would be no "THEM", that is to say, nobody different, that doesn't belong.

Well, that does'nt help matters at all, does it?

Edit: NEVERMIND perhaps I was being a dick. Though you have to admire my use of metaphor.

[DFM]

Originally Posted by Geminex

We're holding the people who make the jokes accountable. Why not the people who laugh at them? Is going "I say, I say, I say, the other day I saw a BLACK GUY eating WATERMELON!" any more offensive than laughing at that?

Probably because there's no real way to do that unless they repeat the joke or you record a comedy act, watch it to find out who laughed, find out who they are, then send them increasingly curt letters asking them to explain themselves.

[Premmy]

Originally Posted by Geminex

We're holding the people who make the jokes accountable. Why not the people who laugh at them? Is going "I say, I say, I say, the other day I saw a BLACK GUY eating WATERMELON!" any more offensive than laughing at that?

They're dicks too, but acting Like Calling a dick a dick is somehow being "Over sensitive" is just victim blaming of the highest order.

I totally agree with this. It happens. Far too often. But since we can't outlaw "Being a Dick", the only way to stop this kind of behavior is by influencing society directly. This may be done through mind-control apparati, though I believe various other media can also be quite effective.

I really don't give two fucks about individual dickery, people are dicks, this is a fact of life, It's hardly the problem, a symptom of a greater issue, but not the issue itself.

Barring extreme symptoms( and this is'nt one of those) you treat the disease, not the symptom. The symptoms let you know the disease is present, which is why attention is drawn to it, but the culture at large does'nt want to move beyond that, which is why we're discussing comedians now.

I don't want to "stop" people being dicks, because sometimes it can lead to beneficial results. And the idea itself bridges far to deeply into Mind control and dictating what kinds of personalities people can have, which is part of the problem we're actually dealing with in the first place.

Well, I think that in the "US vs THEM" mindframe, what really makes someone "THEM" is that certain values held by "US" cannot be applied to them, or that they just don't measure up to these values. This in turn is caused by "US" being unwilling to recognize "THEIR" values. If it were "JUST US" that'd be ideal, because there would be no "THEM", that is to say, nobody different, that doesn't belong.

The issue is'nt the presence of "Them" The issue is "Us" being over anybody else. It's "Just US" because we're only concerned with "Us" and if you're not "Us" you can just go rot.

So, the idea is We "Just" care about "Us" and anybody else is going to get run over in the process.

I didn't say whose arrogance. Quite a bit of it is mine. And you have to admire my use of metaphor.

fine fine, but you just know it's gonna get worse from there, man, C'mon.

[Geminex]

Originally Posted by DFM

Probably because there's no real way to do that unless they repeat the joke or you record a comedy act, watch it to find out who laughed, find out who they are, then send them increasingly curt letters asking them to explain themselves.

Despite the potential hilarity of doing so, this leads back to what I was saying. (Or trying to say. I may have expressed it badly) You can influence comedians, hold them accountable. But you can't hold the audience accountable, it isn't practically possible. What we can do is recognize that the audience's reaction is as much part of the problem as the Comedian's actions, and then analyze society to evaluate why the audience (that is to say, some elements of society) react the way they do, and then consider how this can be changed. If we don't, we're not addressing the problem, we're simply reiterating that racist comedians are dickheads

[Geminex]

I don't want to "stop" people being dicks, because sometimes it can lead to beneficial results. And the idea itself bridges far to deeply into Mind control and dictating what kinds of personalities people can have, which is part of the problem we're actually dealing with in the first place.

There were quite a lot of authors who thought the same way as me (or rather, I think the same way as them... isn't it wonderfull, what you learn in German class?), and what they did was simply write books and plays that illustrated their points wonderfully. No mind control. Just compelling writing that underlined the flaws in society. Most of them didn't offer solutions, couldn't offer solutions, but their purpose was to create awareness. They did. ^^
An example would be the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Physicists

So, the idea is We "Just" care about "Us" and anybody else is going to get run over in the process.

Kay, I see what you mean. I think we're both adressing the same problem, only in my view "US" are more agressive towards "THEM", want them actively gone and in your view "US" just disregard anyone that isn't "US". Yours might actually be more accurate, since this is less "Hey, let's lynch the black guys!" and more "Hey, let's make jokes about the black guys being black, who cares what they thing?"

fine fine, but you just know it's gonna get worse from there, man, C'mon.

Hence my edit. Yes, I'm the arrogant dick here. Or was. Not sure.

[Premmy]

There were quite a lot of authors who thought the same way as me (or rather, I think the same way as them... isn't it wonderfull, what you learn in German class?), and what they did was simply write books and plays that illustrated their points wonderfully. No mind control. Just compelling writing that underlined the flaws in society. Most of them didn't offer solutions, couldn't offer solutions, but their purpose was to create awareness. They did. ^^

See, this is how you(or rather,one way) change the culture, the disease of our culture(and it's dominance) shitting all over everyone, and thus allowing for even more horrible behavior and actions.

Stand-up comdians are almost textbook individual dickishness, and that's something that can't really be changed, and, considering the few ways it might be possible(mind Control and whatnot) and the fact that the particular way in which they express their dickishness is a minor symptom of a greater problem, Are'nt worth trying, and probably a bad idea to try anyway.

Hence my edit. Yes, I'm the arrogant dick here. Or was. Not sure.

Started posting before the edit, sorry.

[Geminex]

Are'nt worth trying, and probably a bad idea to try anyway.

Well, if you tried then they'd be probably too busy making fun of you to make racist jokes for a while, their audience would howl with laughter at the silly socialists trying to restrict freedom speech, and you would have achieved nothing. But addressing the larger issue, trying to make the audience realize that the dick's actually dick and not funny at all, that's not impossible, is it? It's what I've been trying to advocate.

[DFM]

Bullets. Bullets to all their noggins.

[Premmy]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Well, if you tried then they'd be probably too busy making fun of you to make racist jokes for a while, their audience would howl with laughter at the silly socialists trying to restrict freedom speech, and you would have achieved nothing. But addressing the larger issue, trying to make the audience realize that the dick's actually dick and not funny at all, that's not impossible, is it?

They're dicks too,

^
I Keeed I keeed

But seriously, that recquires conversations such as this on a personal level, because as I've said, the issue is'nt the individual saying rude things, but the culture that encourages it. This is hard because the culture itself wants to focus on the individual(which coincidnetally, just so happens to be an expression of the problem :P) and thus, getting individuals to sit down and have these conversations is damn fucking hard, and focusing on convincing one jerk they're acting like a jerk pales in comparison to more pressing matters.*

Pushing the culture in a more positive direction and *making absolutely certain people are'nt being actively oppressed so that they themselves can properly assist in these things,( Protip: We ARE'NT, and that's a HUGGGE problem) IS the bigger issue.

[Mirai Gen]

Originally Posted by Archbio

They get paid for it, which is the mark of unimpeachable social approbation, therefore nobody can say that it's not ok without being an hypocrite (being a part of society), therefore it's in practice ok.

Jesus Christ, Archbio.

I honestly never thought someone would tell me that I'm a hypocrite for saying that Guy Earle can make whatever tasteless joke the fuck he wants while I sit over here not spending my money on him because I disagree. But there it is.