Pokemon Umbral Discussion 36: Questions Are Overrated

[Geminex]

Umm... You might wanna check out my latest post in the RP thread. Read it carefully. And you should know that actually happened before you posted that Impact didn't support lasering Togekiss.

Oh, wow. You're god-moding! Very nicely done. Classy! That's totally a valid counter-argument!
...
Edit your fucking post. Impact never gave any agreement (as you can tell by the fact that I never actually posted him agreeing). Fire Lexhur's laser. But hell, Pierce is gonna be taking the fall on that one and don't you dare try to share responsibility with Impact for that.

And what do you mean, the favor's no sweetener? I'm not calling it in! That's the entire point! I'm offering to forget it if you agree to Charlotte. The deal becomes better for you, since you do not only gain a highly competent, effective leader (:3), but also don't have to do me a favor later. A favor which you most certainly would otherwise have to do at the worst possible moment.

If I were calling it in, the favor would be 'agree to this deal' and our discussion would be whether a moderate favor is sufficient to make that happen. But like I said, that's not what's happening.

But you still have to brand it on their arms.

...
Perhaps.

Also, I don't want to decline, but you keep making offers that just aren't worth it.

I really don't think they're all that 'not worth it'...
But very well. Let's hear your counteroffer.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Oh, wow. You're god-moding! Very nicely done. Classy! That's totally a valid counter-argument!
...
Edit your fucking post. Impact never gave any agreement (as you can tell by the fact that I never actually posted him agreeing). Fire Lexhur's laser. But hell, Pierce is gonna be taking the fall on that one and don't you dare try to share responsibility with Impact for that.

... You do realize that if I had Pierce make these decisions for himself either you or Impact would be getting all pissy about it?

Which is why I decided to have Pierce clear it with Impact, and since you're not posting, yes, a tiny amount of god-moding was necessary. Or are we going by the assumption that Impact simply went mysteriously mute around the time that your posting became scarce?

Like I said, it happened before you posted. I never meant it as a counter-argument. But hey, post edited now.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And what do you mean, the favor's no sweetener? I'm not calling it in! That's the entire point! I'm offering to forget it if you agree to Charlotte. The deal becomes better for you, since you do not only gain a highly competent, effective leader (:3), but also don't have to do me a favor later. A favor which you most certainly would otherwise have to do at the worst possible moment.

See, now that you're saying it I don't believe you.

And, you know, since I don't believe that Charlotte would be a highly competent, effective leader, I think I'd rather have to owe you a favor later.

Originally Posted by Geminex

If I were calling it in, the favor would be 'agree to this deal' and our discussion would be whether a moderate favor is sufficient to make that happen. But like I said, that's not what's happening.

... That is what you did. You worded it in a way that made it seemed like the favor was being forgotten, but goddamn man!

I could've masked my proposal to depose Impact in a way that made it seem like I was doing you a favor, but that wouldn't have changed the fact that I was screwing you over!

You were saying that one moderate favor was worth having Charlotte as leader. And you were trying to get me to agree. However way you want to put it, that is cashing in the favor.

Originally Posted by Geminex

I really don't think they're all that 'not worth it'...
But very well. Let's hear your counteroffer.

And here it is:

I'm going to shoot myself in the foot here. I'll vote for Charlotte. In exchange, you will forget the moderate favor and if for whatever reason Charlotte ever has to step down as leader, Pierce gets the job, no questions asked.

And of course, I promise not to organize Charlotte's downfall or have a hand in it in any way.

And now you've fallen into my trap! You're going to feel so bad about me selling out for such a low price that you're going to sweeten this up for me. Kinda like a kid resignedly giving you his candy.

[Geminex]

First, thanks for editing. Though...

... You do realize that if I had Pierce make these decisions for himself either you or Impact would be getting all pissy about it?

Sure, we can assume he had some feedback. But hey, he's a soldier in combat, he can't always devote his attention to leading.

Though, conveniently, his breaks from leadership will coicide exactly with mine. ^^
Also, because we're finally done here, apparently (I can hardly believe it), I'm willing to let Renny and Pierce share the credit for the last few turns. Mind you, I have time now, so the amount of credit they get to take ends with the latest plan you posted. Still. There's your candy.

In fact, lemme just resummarize the deal:

- I give up leadership. This means Impact no longer commands the watchmen, in-battle or out. We're gonna need to justify this idea, I favor that Impact would get promoted in a manner that's technically more advantageous to him, but that causes him to lose all authority over the Watchmen. AB, would it be feasible that he gets some sort of military rank, for some reason? Rayleen seemed pretty impressed with him, and there's gonna be a lot of Prideguard prisoners by the time the battle's over. Maybe put him in charge of integrating those prisoners into PATCA? He'd technically get more power, but he'd have no command over the Watchmen. I don't give up all claim to leadership, but unless some really, really drastic change happens, plot-wise or otherwise, I won't attempt to regain it. Impact's imperious, commanding manner will continue, but he won't actually have any authority to back it up, so your characters can retaliate however they please, should he be too much of a dick. One thing I reserve the right to, is to negotiate later to have Impact lead during the last mission. It'd be nicely thematic, and, quite probably, plot-important. I won't negotiate yet, but when I do, I'd discuss this with all of you, and you will probably be compensated.

- Charlotte replaces Impact as leader. This may be because Rayleen gets really, really drunk, or because Impact picks her as his replacement, which I favor. If Charlotte drops out, Pierce replaces her as leader.
...
Charlotte had better not drop out.
Just to clarify, though, Pierce is still a standard tactician, on the same level as Impact or Renny. He's not vice-leader, he's just a guy takes initiative if the actual leader is no longer active.
Also, I'll do my best to ensure Charlotte's competence.

-The moderate favor Drac owed me is forgotten.

- Within the next few days, I'll post several rules and guidelines, regarding which changes in character power, and general modifications to the battle system, are permissible. The goal thereof would be to channel character power, limit excessive growth, make sure all characters have roughly the same strength, and generally stop the battle system from getting screwed by not-thought-out changes. These are still sort of vague, but I've described them before, and they'd be in the vein of the arguing I've done so far. We'd discuss these, but my willingness to compromise would be limited. Yours, I hope, would be less so. Should our discussion of these fail and we be unable to agree on guidelines, the entire deal would have to be reevaluated. Please do not let this happen. Once the guidelines are all worked out, you'd agree to abide by them (meaning you wouldn't make imbalanced suggestions, and argue against all those who do make them). I'd have to trust you not to screw me over by purposefully misinterpreting them. Spirit of the law, people. Not the letter. But you knew that.

That's all, I think. Does everyone agree to this?

[Dracorion]

Oh wait, no I don't!

That's right! I'm betraying you! Again!

Ha ha!


...
Nah, just kidding. I'm in.

Though, I would like to clarify. When I say "if Charlotte ever steps down as leader" I mean even if it's a temporary stepping down Pierce will be put in charge. When she returns, Pierce will hand leadership back, of course.

And this is just an opinion: I've already expressed my views that Impact's job change should be more of a sideways motion. "Promotion" just has so many connotations to it, and I'd hate for Charlotte's leadership to be impaired by Impact technically being her superior and her having to follow, or thinking she has to follow, his "suggestions".

EDIT: I am going to laugh so hard if it turns out Dante doesn't want Charlotte as leader.

[Geminex]

EDIT: I am going to laugh so hard if it turns out Dante doesn't want Charlotte as leader.

That wouldn't be nice. I'd have to... take care of matters.have a polite and civilized conversation with him outlining the pros and cons of his unfortunate choice. And besides, didn't he already say yes?

And Impact abandons all rank-based authority. That means, whatever we arrange to remove his leader status, even if he should become the sole remaining legitimate Prideguard general, we'd do it in a way that makes it impossible for Impact to use this authority to get his way during missions, or in any other PATCA-related context. The simplest case would just be for me to agree to avoid doing so, which I do. Impact's no longer leader, people. Once Dante agrees again. I won't try to get around that. In return, I expect that none of you try to get around the rules we'll set up.

And the Charlotte thing, yeah. That's what I meant.

[Dracorion]

I forget.

To be fair, who of us remembers what Dante does?

[Geminex]

Oooooooh SNAP.
You just burned Dante. He is ON FIRE OH MAN SOMEBODY PUT HIM OUT HE IS DYING OH NO HE IS DEAD NOW because Drac BURNED HIM.

Do I make myself clear? Now, let's talk about something less inane. Not sure what.

[Astral Harmony]

Right, I've got a day off and I plan to put a lot of work in today.

Starting off with Geminex. You can't get a military rank because PATCA is not a military organization. Additionally, you are a squadron leader. Stuff like interrogation and integrating units into the squadron is not your responsibility. And no, you cannot make it your responsibility.

There isn't going to be a lot of Prideguard prisoners after the battle. In fact, the only thing PATCA gets that originally belonged to the Prideguard in Grant's Arceus.

Hell, if it comes to that, I'd actually have Matthias do it for interrogation and Rayleen's replacement to work on squadron assignment. With Porygon Z's hacking ability, Matthias is well capable of gathering all kinds of information, especially the kinds of information that even I as GM wouldn't want him to find. He could concievably break the plot in certain places.

Then he could go up to prisoners during interrogation with all of his printed evidence and be all Phoenix Wright on a motherfucker.

Speaking of Dante, I need more details on your character's appearance in order to create a decent sprite of him. All I have are details about what Venomoth characteristics he has. Nothing about hair color or eye color or the clothes he wears.

Same for Menarker. All I have for Renny is that he's a cute li'l munchkin with messy blond hair. No eye color or clothes to speak of. Please tell me that he does wear something. I'd hate to think that all this time, Renny as a 16-year old boy has been running around and fighting while stark naked.

As for the sprite comic, I guess it's about...oh, 70% done? The toughest part for me (dialogue) is finished. The sprites for Impact, Pierce, and Charlotte are all done. I just need expanded descriptions on what Renny and Matthias look like so I can create sprites of them. I imagine the comic will be finished probably Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon. All I can say for the sprite comic is, I think you're all going to hate me for taking one dimension of your character and focusing completely on that for the dialogue. But it is funny. At least I'm laughing.

I'll have the RP post finished this afternoon sometime. In my mind, Moera just seems to get more and more badass. I think she's going to end up becoming one powerful villain.

I'm not sure about actually branding the Geminex avatar on the arm. I had an idea where it changes color based on outside stimuli, the blue being all conditions normal, red when enemies are detected, yellow when unsafe environmental conditions are detected, and other crap.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Same for Menarker. All I have for Renny is that he's a cute li'l munchkin with messy blond hair. No eye color or clothes to speak of. Please tell me that he does wear something. I'd hate to think that all this time, Renny as a 16-year old boy has been running around and fighting while stark naked.

YES.

YES FUCK YES THIS IS WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING.

NO SERIOUSLY, THIS IS IT.

CAN YOU IMAGINE IF HE USED VALIANT RUSH? OH WOW.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

As for the sprite comic, I guess it's about...oh, 70% done? The toughest part for me (dialogue) is finished. The sprites for Impact, Pierce, and Charlotte are all done. I just need expanded descriptions on what Renny and Matthias look like so I can create sprites of them. I imagine the comic will be finished probably Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon. All I can say for the sprite comic is, I think you're all going to hate me for taking one dimension of your character and focusing completely on that for the dialogue. But it is funny. At least I'm laughing.

Don't worry, I'll probably be laughing. Though, if you do Pierce wrong I'll be protesting in-between laughs.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

I'll have the RP post finished this afternoon sometime. In my mind, Moera just seems to get more and more badass. I think she's going to end up becoming one powerful villain.

Fuck no.

I swear to Christ, I will have Pierce go all OOC and behead her, torch her, dip her in acid then nuke the remains if that's what it takes to keep her from coming back.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

I'm not sure about actually branding the Geminex avatar on the arm. I had an idea where it changes color based on outside stimuli, the blue being all conditions normal, red when enemies are detected, yellow when unsafe environmental conditions are detected, and other crap.

That'd be cheating, wouldn't it? I'm totally against giving Geminex a way to detect spies.

Also, you can have all sorts of fancy toys for detecting unsafe conditions, so the avatar doesn't need that particular feature.

[Geminex]

Starting off with Geminex. You can't get a military rank because PATCA is not a military organization. Additionally, you are a squadron leader. Stuff like interrogation and integrating units into the squadron is not your responsibility. And no, you cannot make it your responsibility.

Well, yeah. We're looking for an excuse for Impact to no longer be leader. I don't want him to get demoted though, so what I'm thinking is this:

- For some reason or another, Impact gets rank in the military (my suggestion to justify this would have been military integration, but I'd be happy to make it something else).

- Because, as you said, PATCA is not a military organization, he cannot have both military and PATCA rank. He'd still go on missions because hell, he's still a watchman, he just can't be an officer in PATCA because of some technicality.

- This would justify his no-longer-being-leader without disadvantaging him.

And hell, all the stuff you state as fact is only fact because you say it is. If you change your mind, it's no longer fact. Can I get you to change your mind in order to facilitate this deal?

Edit:
And ok, I'll start taking the tatoo idea seriously. I'm thinking scythe-blades crossed behind a blood ruby. For certain, honored forces. They wear it as a mark of pride.