A question about Indi game Devs

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I've been wondering this for a while. To be honest it has me scared stiff.

How do you guys feel about Indi Game Devs using pre-made/preset physics engines and bahaviours that they didn't make them selves when developing their game?

Do you think it's immoral/lazy? Or is it an okay thing to do?

Also how do you feel about indi devs using Pre-made Kits as a base to build their game on?

[Bells]

Big companies do that too, don't they?

Licensing tools, engines, software... they do it all the time, from what i understand... so i really see no problem with it, if you wanna make a house i don't really expect you to make your own hammer...

Using tools that are available to making games is fine and all, it's usually the fine tuning and tweaking and adding to these tools that make the uniqueness of games ( Resident Evil being turned into Devil May Cry, for example...)

I mean, why re-invent the wheel? Time and effort better applied making better assets and polishing the product....

[akaSM]

I don't mind indie devs using available tools to make their games. Sanctum, Killing Floor and Super Monday Night Combat all use the Unreal Engine and, are pretty awesome games. The devs can do anything they want as long as they make a great game. Having the devs make their own engine is neat, especially in cases like Croteam, whose Serious Engine can run on low specced PCs, but can also be scaled up to Crysis level and beyond.

[Melfice]

You'd be scared to death to see how many companies (not indies, mind) are using the Unreal Engine, like Bells said.
But, of course, those companies aren't indie and are immoral and lazy by default, hmm?

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Thank you for the feedback guys. I feel a lot better now knowing it's okay to use kits.

[Aerozord]

Even most game engines that AAA developers make themselves are based on older licensed engines. Source for example can be traced back to the quake engine

[Nikose Tyris]

Just a word of warning; some kits are free, some you're gonna steal. Don't pirate anything that is for Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft CONSOLE development. They don't give a shit if you pirate everything else off the net, but if they have any reason to suspect you've acquired their software outside their official channels, say goodbye to EVER developing for any of them.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Thanks for the heads up, Nikose.

[Sithdarth]

You really want to program games well I can suggest some reading:

Game Engine Architecture is just generally useful to anyone building large complex programs.

Game Coding Complete is an alternative to Game Engine Architecture but having more than one perspective is usually a good thing.

Programming Game AI by Example is good for practical applications.

While AI Techniques for Game Programming is much more about theory.

Mathematics for 3D Game Programming and Computer Graphics is a must if your math is shaky.

Game Physics Engine Development should help with the whole physics engine thing. Calculus is a must though.

Physically Based Rendering, Second Edition will teach you how to build a rendering engine.

Real-Time Collision Detection will help with that physics engine thing.

The Ultimate Guide to Video Game Writing and Design is more about how to make a game enjoyable from the creative side of things.

Then of course if you don't know much programing you'll need to learn a language or two. At the very least:

You'll need something like C++ Primer Plus to learn C++ and you might want to learn Java and plain old C as well.

Additionally you'll probably need a good scripting language and since Lua seems popular you'll probably want Programming in Lua as well as the Lua reference manual.

Now I myself haven't been through all these books but I am planning to overtime mostly because there is a lot of overlap with creating complex software suites for solving problems in science. Also, I just find programming fascinating. I'm also planning on reading through some more basic theory of programming books and picking up at least Python and probably PHP to go with Java, C/C++, Fortran (man do I hate Fortran), and Lua.

Of course you might be saying to yourself that all that reading looks like an entire degree in computer science and you'd probably be pretty close to right. You really aren't going to be able to do what you asked about, well at least you won't do it well, without a level of knowledge close to someone with a bachelors in computer science. If that's what you want than all the more power to you but it isn't going to be easy. I'm lucky in that I absolutely love anything to do with electronics and have a natural talent for it. Not to mention bachelors degrees in both Math and Physics as background.

So really it's not so much a question of being immoral/lazy to use licensed or free engines and kits. It's more a question of do you have the drive, time, and money to self-teach yourself what amounts to a computer science degree. That or do you have the drive, time, and money to actually enroll in a degree granting program dedicated to game design.

[Nikose Tyris]

Case in Point: Final year of Game Development here at Humber, 28 students. Of those, 6 decided that their capstone final project would involve a home made physics engine.

Those 6 people did not finish in time to pass.