Backtracking in Video games or damn it Megaman X3!

Kyanbu The Legend · 02-08-2014, 08:10 PM

I've been thinking a lot about backtracking and how it's been done in video games.

And I realized that aside from Megaman ZX and ZX Advent, the Metroid Style Castlevanias released on PS1, GBA, and the DS (I've played them all), and Megaman Zero. I haven't really experienced many 2D games with backtracking.

From my limited experience. I have mixed feelings about it. While it does give players more of a reason to re-explore an area or room they've previously been to. I hate the idea of forcing a player to have to come back to an area just to progress with the story. Like with all of the Metroid style CV games minus Order of Ecclesia to an extent. Sometimes I don't mind it, other times I do. And honestly I don't find myself replaying them most of the time despite how much I enjoyed each one. Yes I even liked Harmony of dissonance. In the end I guess I'm indifferent to it.

How do you guys feel about Backtracking in Games?

Flarecobra · 02-08-2014, 08:35 PM

Depends on if there's a good reason for it or not.

Bard The 5th LW · 02-08-2014, 09:10 PM

They have to be able to keep it interesting. I enjoyed most Metroid stuff I've played and those games have plenty of backtracking. The backtracking kind of segments in skyward sword though, for example, drove me insane.

Bells · 02-08-2014, 09:42 PM

well there is backtracking... and backtracking... going back to an empty area you already passed through with nothing in your way aside from a door that now you can open just going through a stage in reverse (DMC4?) that's one thing... but ''now i can access that 15% of that area i couldn't before!" or "now i can take a shortcut through this area thanks to this powerup!'' it's another.

Symphony of the night is pretty good with this. Enemies are always there for you but you always get new itens and powers to make you reach a bit further and going back-to-back in the castle. And by the time you are REALLY powerful, it just inverts the castle. Making you essentiall backtrack the whole thing with a twist that makes it ''new'' again.

Ryong · 02-08-2014, 11:24 PM

Backtracking in a metroidvania almost requires that you a)have shortcuts b)are able to explore more of the area than before and c)have an increased mobility compared to the first time you went through.

A good way to minimize backtracking is making a hub world and having a easy way of going back there whenever.

Amake · 02-09-2014, 12:38 AM

We could look at the example World of Warcraft sets. Who hasn't, since around 2004, found themselves fervently wishing hearthstones were real so you could just be done with whatever exhausting misadventures you're up to and just be home, without the need for - wait for it - going back? It's a shameless anti-frustration measure in a game filled with countless numbers of them, but it feels so nice and easy and right that the mere idea of it has changed the way we look at the world without even being slightly physically plausible.

Clearly shortcuts to previously visited areas are the way to go if you're going for a more immediately gratifying playing experience, but I could see the other way working if you're thinking long term and want the player to think "Finally done with this horseshit" when they put down the game. Me, I like it when games reward you for doing things the hard way, though there's got to be more to it than that one Elixir you get for taking the stairs sixty floors up the Shinra tower in FF7.

Actually, I recall the single most satisfying moment I ever had in a videogame, in Eve Online. I spent around three months of real time at the beginning of the game not learning any useful skills or advancing in the game in any measurable way, until I had mastered the whole school of Learning skills, ensuring that everything else I did for the remainder of the game's lifespan would go just a little bit easier, and maybe ten years down the road I would inexorably leave those less hardcore players eating my space dust who didn't make that same sacrifice. A real, tangible, incredibly frustrating tedium paying off in a supreme advantage in the long term - the longest term conceivable in the game's context? I could stand some more games like that.

(It would also have been pretty cool if CCP hadn't caved to the players' complaints and Learning skills kept being a thing, not completely negating my efforts like two years later. Stupid online games.)

synkr0nized · 02-09-2014, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyanbu The Legend

backtracking

fucking Faceless Void

02-08-2014, 08:10 PM	#1
Kyanbu The Legend Local Rookie Indie Dev Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5,497	Backtracking in Video games or damn it Megaman X3! I've been thinking a lot about backtracking and how it's been done in video games. And I realized that aside from Megaman ZX and ZX Advent, the Metroid Style Castlevanias released on PS1, GBA, and the DS (I've played them all), and Megaman Zero. I haven't really experienced many 2D games with backtracking. From my limited experience. I have mixed feelings about it. While it does give players more of a reason to re-explore an area or room they've previously been to. I hate the idea of forcing a player to have to come back to an area just to progress with the story. Like with all of the Metroid style CV games minus Order of Ecclesia to an extent. Sometimes I don't mind it, other times I do. And honestly I don't find myself replaying them most of the time despite how much I enjoyed each one. Yes I even liked Harmony of dissonance. In the end I guess I'm indifferent to it. How do you guys feel about Backtracking in Games? __________________

02-08-2014, 08:35 PM	#2
Flarecobra Burn. Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Classified Posts: 11,017	Depends on if there's a good reason for it or not. __________________ "Only the fool wishes to go into battle to beat someone for the satisfaction of beating someone." -A Thousand Sons Rules. Read them, know them, love them.

02-08-2014, 09:42 PM	#4
Bells That's so PC of you Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: In a Server-sided Dimension where time is meaningless Posts: 10,490	well there is backtracking... and backtracking... going back to an empty area you already passed through with nothing in your way aside from a door that now you can open just going through a stage in reverse (DMC4?) that's one thing... but ''now i can access that 15% of that area i couldn't before!" or "now i can take a shortcut through this area thanks to this powerup!'' it's another. Symphony of the night is pretty good with this. Enemies are always there for you but you always get new itens and powers to make you reach a bit further and going back-to-back in the castle. And by the time you are REALLY powerful, it just inverts the castle. Making you essentiall backtrack the whole thing with a twist that makes it ''new'' again. __________________ *BELLS STORE : Clothes! You wear* them! Free US Shipping Subscription System? WTF?! Zazzle Black!**

02-09-2014, 12:38 AM	#6
Amake Keeper of the new Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: A place without judgment Posts: 4,506	We could look at the example World of Warcraft sets. Who hasn't, since around 2004, found themselves fervently wishing hearthstones were real so you could just be done with whatever exhausting misadventures you're up to and just be home, without the need for - wait for it - going back? It's a shameless anti-frustration measure in a game filled with countless numbers of them, but it feels so nice and easy and right that the mere idea of it has changed the way we look at the world without even being slightly physically plausible. Clearly shortcuts to previously visited areas are the way to go if you're going for a more immediately gratifying playing experience, but I could see the other way working if you're thinking long term and want the player to think "Finally done with this horseshit" when they put down the game. Me, I like it when games reward you for doing things the hard way, though there's got to be more to it than that one Elixir you get for taking the stairs sixty floors up the Shinra tower in FF7. Actually, I recall the single most satisfying moment I ever had in a videogame, in Eve Online. I spent around three months of real time at the beginning of the game not learning any useful skills or advancing in the game in any measurable way, until I had mastered the whole school of Learning skills, ensuring that everything else I did for the remainder of the game's lifespan would go just a little bit easier, and maybe ten years down the road I would inexorably leave those less hardcore players eating my space dust who didn't make that same sacrifice. A real, tangible, incredibly frustrating tedium paying off in a supreme advantage in the long term - the longest term conceivable in the game's context? I could stand some more games like that. (It would also have been pretty cool if CCP hadn't caved to the players' complaints and Learning skills kept being a thing, not completely negating my efforts like two years later. Stupid online games.) __________________ Hope insistent, trust implicit, love inherent, life immersed

02-08-2014, 09:10 PM	#3
Bard The 5th LW Feelin' Super! Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 4,191	They have to be able to keep it interesting. I enjoyed most Metroid stuff I've played and those games have plenty of backtracking. The backtracking kind of segments in skyward sword though, for example, drove me insane.

02-08-2014, 11:24 PM	#5
Ryong Professional Threadkiller Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil Posts: 3,798	Backtracking in a metroidvania almost requires that you a)have shortcuts b)are able to explore more of the area than before and c)have an increased mobility compared to the first time you went through. A good way to minimize backtracking is making a hub world and having a easy way of going back there whenever.