Girls aren't the only ones hurt by being objectified

[Aerozord]

This is just something that really bothers me, the objectification of men. With how vocal people are about women being treated as pretty things to gawk at I wish they'd be aware enough to not do the same.

No this isn't me being satirical. I personally feel like crap because of how often I see women openly gushing and drooling over unrealistic appearances of males. Sometimes the same women that complain about men only caring about looks. That if I dont have this perfectly fit body I'm not worth a second glance. Objectification isn't a female only issue, so stop acting like it is.

/rant

[Kim]

Beauty standards are shitty, but they aren't objectification.

Yes, they apply to both men and women, but they are much more strict on women with much more toxic and harmful results.

For every man with an eating disorder, there are two women with one.

That's just among adolescents.

Objectification is the way people are perceived not as human but as objects or as means toward an end. How men view women as tools for their sexual satisfaction and other wants, thus contributing to the epidemic of rape and abuse of women. Which yes, does happen to men as well, but the majority of the time that men are raped and abused it's by men.

Sexualized women are quite often perceived as tools. Sexualized men are still quite often perceived as people. And there's research that backs that up! Another link.

Let's not even get into the degree to which women are bombarded with objectified women simply for using the internet. Play now my lord! Eager ladies are waiting for you! Tits! Ass! Disclaimer: This Is A Game Advertisement

But then jackasses just write it off as sex sells. But if it's as simple as that why aren't they marketing to women's sex drives?

If you wanna complain about beauty standards, that's a perfectly valid thing to be upset about. I agree with tearing them down. They're bullshit and gross and terrible.

What I dislike is that rather than try and start some meaningful conversation about a serious issue, your thread opening is just how nobody cares about your manpain.

And when your thread is about how nobody cares about your manpain, you aren't exactly asking for a worthwhile conversation in the first place.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

Originally Posted by Kim

What I dislike is that rather than try and start some meaningful conversation about a serious issue, your thread opening is just how nobody cares about your manpain.

Smooth, kim. Real smooth.

[Bells]

I think it's fair to say that the grounds are quite uneven on that battlefront... but yes, guys are targeted to. And not just by women. There is also culture of Men objectifying men... shit goes deeper.

Truth be told... we have layers of shit underneath every facet of mankind. Some more, some less... but everybody gets a slice.

[Marc v4.0]

This isn't objectification, it's just plain ole unrealistic body standards. Objectification is a completely different concept as Kim so nicely and neatly laid out.

Society at large defines a women as A Thing To Be Acquired and Possessed(objectification) and tells men They Have To Look/Act Like This (unrealistic body standards) in order to do so.

If we're going to have this conversation, we should start it off right by not obfuscating together two completely different concepts as the Same Thing when They Are Not.

[Solid Snake]

Aero: I personally simultaneously feel empathetic towards your personal struggles with being considered 'unattractive' or 'undesirable' as a relational partner, while also believing that you're essentially taking a deeply personal, individualistic issue and trying to blow it open into a social justice commentary that really is inapplicable contextually to said struggles.

No feminist who's arguing vehemently about women being objectified as a significant societal problem is trying to downplay or minimize the fact that everyone's got their own life stories and their own personal struggles. That's something I struggled with too, because upon hearing a lot of social justice criticisms for the first time, my reaction was "But I'm not like those men you're criticizing, so why are you labeling the privileged group as just 'men', as if it's applicable to every guy?"

There were two things that were really goin' on beneath the surface when I'd make that objection. The first was that I was in active denial of my own, at times involuntary, at times subconscious participation in the very elements of objectification I'd consciously condemn. We're all shaped and molded by the society we live in, and I absolutely was more misogynistic than I believed I was; it was just very 'subtle' in its execution. Perhaps more insidiously, however, often when I'd make those initial angry claims about "not being like those men [feminists are criticizing]", I'd often catch myself objecting less because I really identified with the women and more because I secretly or subconsciously wished I was one of those men. I think that's a harder thing to talk about, how those of us who are less-fortunate members of an otherwise still privileged class would probably still be sorely tempted to take advantage of said privilege if ideal circumstances to do so materialized.

So, yes: Just because 'men' in our patriarchal society generally are in ideal positions to objectify and dehumanize women doesn't mean that every man individually could wield that power. I guess I'd just be careful to ensure that many of your personal gripes about being 'unattractive' or 'undesirable' aren't really ways of expressing a hidden desire to be one of those men at the top of the totem pole, and to be in a position where you could be the one who's objectifying.

[Kim]

One thing I do wanna throw out is that there probably is a degree to which men are objectified but I would wager that that extent is almost entirely along racial lines. i.e. I can't see white men being objectified to any statistically worthwhile amount but I would be DAMN surprised to find out black men aren't objectified a lot. Tho even there I expect its worse for black women, cuz I'm certain its worse for black women than white women. But AFAIK studies on objectification haven't taken race /and/ gender into account and that's a shame.

[Solid Snake]

I'm probably an average to below-average guy in the looks department, honestly, but I'm genuinely struggling to identify a single time in my life where I've truly been objectified.
There have certainly been moments where I've been rejected and 'treated poorly', in my own opinion, by women I've expressed interest in, but even then I've always been treated as a human being, just like, not the kind of human being they'd want to date.

And Donald Sterling was definitely objectifying the (athletic) black men who played basketball for team he own[ed], that was kind of disgustingly fascinating to listen to.

[Aerozord]

this is what I'm talking about, the moment a white male talks about being treated poorly by society people dog pile on them about having the audacity to dare imply that I am in any way dehumanized. So fixated on needing a group to blame they instantly reject the notion that they have any issues themselves.

Because heaven forbid someone imply that women can be shallow, abusive, and treat men as mere objects to lust after.

[Solid Snake]

You may well be in a position where you're being treated poorly by society, Aero, but I just don't think you're being treated poorly because you're white and/or male.