Premmy's Big-Long Anti-Racism thread.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I've told you before Lev- Genism has pretty much no scientific basis in anything at all. The effect that ones specific genes have on a person's final development is so tin as to be neglible and the cost of modifying them is so ridiculously high when compared to social programs which modify a person's environment which has a FAR FAR outcome on a person's final being.
Genism is scientifically nonsense. It is economically nonsense. Though it could happen because people are stupid.

As for racism I have a real problem with affirmative action plans (Lolz, you so racist BHS). The reason is that these plans (in the way they are set up where I have encountered them- I don't know the specifics of US systems) overwhelmingly help the middle class/rich parts of any minority gropu who don't really need it because these are the people who are more aware of the opportunities in the system, have better information about it and have more ability to take advantage. The people who really need help don't tend to get it.
That is why I always think these plans should be more economically based instead of racially based because they will still overwhelmingly help the minority who needs them- because they are overrepresented in the poverty statistics- while not helping those who don't actually need it.

[Hanuman]

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

I've told you before Lev- Genism has pretty much no scientific basis in anything at all. The effect that ones specific genes have on a person's final development is so tin as to be neglible and the cost of modifying them is so ridiculously high when compared to social programs which modify a person's environment which has a FAR FAR outcome on a person's final being.
Genism is scientifically nonsense. It is economically nonsense. Though it could happen because people are stupid.

As for racism I have a real problem with affirmative action plans (Lolz, you so racist BHS). The reason is that these plans (in the way they are set up where I have encountered them- I don't know the specifics of US systems) overwhelmingly help the middle class/rich parts of any minority gropu who don't really need it because these are the people who are more aware of the opportunities in the system, have better information about it and have more ability to take advantage. The people who really need help don't tend to get it.
That is why I always think these plans should be more economically based instead of racially based because they will still overwhelmingly help the minority who needs them- because they are overrepresented in the poverty statistics- while not helping those who don't actually need it.

{{citation needed}}

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Originally Posted by Lev

{{citation needed}}

What bit would you like me to cite? Cause every study ever done in the last 40 years on the influence of environment versus genes overwhelmingly concludes that environment is far more critical than genetic upbringing.
The simplest way to look at it is that the brain- our most critical part- is barely developed when you are born the first years of life are when it develops ad that development is pretty much entirely environmental determined.
And then there is the fact that genes react different to different environments. There is no one simple gene that always does one thing- the body is a complex set of interactions which depend on so many more things than genetic interactions.
Even at its absolute most basic level the tertiary structure of a gene is determined by environmental factors- if you change these factors you change the final behaviour.
If you want me to cite a specific thing I can but just go to google- this is simple basic stuff, first year biology.
I'm pretty sure I cited a whole lot of stuff the last time you made this ridiculous argument- so you can go back and read that one.

And changing society is far cheaper than molecular cells- or do you wat me to cite that too.

Originally Posted by POS Industries

I'm curious as to what degree you differentiate between class-based oppression and race-based oppression in America, as it strikes me that more and more in our current era that the major contributing factor to the impediment of the upward mobility of the average African-American is that we live in a society set up to favor the rich and to maintain that the wealthier citizens not only remain as such but further gain more wealth, which necessitates keeping money, resources, and opportunities for advancement out of the hands of the poor lest we risk any sort of redistribution of wealth to even the most minor degree.

Naturally, the fact that a large share of the black community finds themselves being the victims of what is distinctly class-based warfare--whether those winning the war realize this or not--is certainly based in the centuries of racial oppression they've undergone, and there is certainly a persistent stigma in regards to race relations in this country, but to say that, for the most part, the struggle of the average poor black American is different from the struggle of the average poor white American has quickly become increasingly inaccurate.

In fact, I would say that the racist element is less that black people are not advancing because they're black but the fact that a number of (dumber) white people are under the impression that the reason most black people who do advance in some financial respect do so because whatever white person that surely had to hire them/promote them/enroll them only did so because they were afraid they'd be labeled racist if they did not. This is, of course, ludicrous and obviously a pathetic attempt by dumbass white folks to claim that they are now the ones experiencing racial oppression, because I guess they think that's how you get handed things nowadays. The idea that a black man could possibly be the most qualified candidate eludes them.

However, the people in America who think this way typically don't appear to be the ones in power. In fact, the larger share of them seem to be living in poverty themselves, and are simply angry and looking for someone to blame for their own victimization at the hands of our socioeconomic system without wanting to abandon the system themselves, lest they dash their hopes of somehow being on the top of it themselves one day.

This is pretty much a better version of my argument and I think it is really the most compelling argument that you have to make.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Edit:

Though I would be interested in some more info on the affirmative-action plans and the ineffectiveness thereof, that smarty mentioned.

As I said, my info is based not on the US but on NZ- I can get you some data on that if necessary- but I have no idea how relevant it is. It would seem likely that the same principals apply though.

[POS Industries]

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

This is pretty much a better version of my argument and I think it is really the most compelling argument that you have to make.

Bear in mind, of course, that I'm speaking on average. There are certainly areas throughout the country where full-on lynchtastic cross-burning sheet-wearing bigotry is operating in full effect. My time in Shasta County, California, for instance, provided quite the horrifying reminder for me that we as a nation still have a long way to go. A 17-year-old autistic boy who wandered out of his house one night and got lost ended up being beaten by police, having his arm broken, and hauled off to jail, which probably wouldn't have happened had he not been black. A seriously ill white woman failed to receive treatment at the local hospital because the man who brought her in was black. That sort of thing.

Not exactly a hospitable area for someone who wasn't a straight, white, Christian man, and as someone who doesn't strictly fall into three out of four of those qualifiers, I didn't exactly make an effort to involve myself in the community.