Pre-emptive Sony News thread.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by NonCon

Hey, remember when that was kind of my fucking point? No? Read again.

No. They're promising full 1:1 and have shown their tech demo has it... maybe...

I welcome you all once again to the point I was making about how publishers lie to you, and so do tech demos. DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNN

Okay, so let me get this straight. You think that developers are going to do SO POORLY with this that they can fuck up both hardware and a software package they didn't make? Granted, maybe someone WILL dick around with the software that makes the system tick, but that kind of defeats the whole purpose of having it unless you know you have something to add and requires permission to add it. That would be like someone deciding they didn't like the way a conventional controller operated and messing with it. If you want to modify a control scheme there are MUCH easier ways of doing it.

Okay, so let me get this straight... because I don't want to get anything wrong here... but if you're saying what I think you're saying... that's a pretty terrible argument there Blues.

You're claiming that what we were shown in the tech demo wasn't what we'll actually be getting. So, what they showed during the tech demo doesn't exist... not really. What we're getting is something different that promises what was shown in the tech demo. I remind you that this is a tech demo that, despite being built around "Hey guys look at this awesome glowing dildo and all it can do!", looked like shit. Your argument in support of the product is that the tech demo showed that it can do what they promise, yet you follow that with "Well complaining about the tech demo is dumb because that isn't the real product."?

So... in short... I can't bitch about the tech demo because that product doesn't exist, but it still proves that what they're selling will work?

Maybe I need to clarify. What I'm saying is that the tech demo was there for the sole purpose of showing off the hardware and software behind it. It was there solely to express the basics. What they did could best be compared to making a piano and hitting every key to show that it works. It's not the music that's going to be eventually played on the piano. Same thing here. They showed off the basics of the control system and it's up to someone else to write some real content for it. You have a piano and working keys, but someone else is going to write the songs.

I have an anecdote for you all. One time I said that most of the software for a product would be shovelware, because purchasers of shovelware were the prime demographic. I take this moment to remind you that although the Wii has the shovelware market cornered pretty well, meaning that most shovelware software will be for the Wii, it is not the only console with shovelware. Anyways, I also made a point to mention that there would probably be good games that took advantage of the Arc. However, I followed that with the statement that the Arc controls would most likely be inferior to the standard controls. Why? Because this is something we observed on the Wii, and since the Arc is a very similar product, it's safe to say that that will probably carry over. My anecdote concludes with Blues ignoring all these points because he has JOY and WONDER and apparently that's enough to discredit reality.

Nonsie, buddy, if you think any system will ever be safe from shovelware, you are far more optimistic than I. I'll admit to having missed you saying there will be good games for the arc, probably because I read it as being very backhanded in a fast transition. The fact of the matter is that it doesn't even make financial sense to continuously write shovelware for anything but the Wii because nobody who owns anything else is going to BUY it. The Wii has marketed itself as a casual system, where the 360 and PS3 have catered MUCH more heavily to a hardcore audience who simply won't put up with that shit. Any attempts to flood either system with shovelware are likely to result in dismal failure because the people who are willing to pay the price tags of the systems are the people who know what's going on in the market.

Basically, shovelware is unlikely because of:
- prohibitive costs
- which are unlikely to be recouped
- because of a hardcore ownership

The developers working with the Arc are in essence going to have to be DAMN sure they make their money back, and the games they write are probably going to rely pretty heavily on the Arc's capabilities. But you know what else? They're still going to have to be playable with normal controls. Sony seems set on making the Arc an equal partner to the normal controller. And they have some pretty hefty guidelines to determine what does and doesn't get published. Companies are going to have to put EXTRA time and money into making the Arc work with their games, meaning the stakes for writing a game around it are that much higher.

With the Wii, the gimmick controls were the default. With the PS3, they're not. The Arc is in every way a risk to a developer, because if they don't utilize it well, it's a LOT of time and money down the drain. The fact of the matter is that there's absolutely nothing stopping people from not developing around it, so the people who do are more likely to either do a damn good job with it or pay the price if they don't.



I really do take offense at your indication I don't know reality. As a person who would like to enter the industry, I have to think about this kind of shit. Maybe I just have a better understanding of it or maybe it IS a matter of joy and wonder, but you can't deny I have a valid argument.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

I really do take offense at your indication I don't know reality. As a person who would like to enter the industry, I have to think about this kind of shit. Maybe I just have a better understanding of it or maybe it IS a matter of joy and wonder, but you can't deny I have a valid argument.

Actually I can deny it. Lookitme denying that Blues has a valid argument, wheeeee! I am especially comfortable doing this as I seem to make a point and you seem to be looking the opposite direction telling me that something other that what I said was wrong. I can't even bother to argue with any of the points you're making because they're so very detached from what I'm saying I really don't know how to respond.

I'm being overly dickish, but every time I think I should apologize, I read that bit about JOY and WONDARRRRRRRGHFUCKMYBRAIN

It just triggers that little part of my brain that makes me want to punch all the people.

[BitVyper]

YOU'RE impossible!

[Bells]

Don't forget to separate Hardware from Software. If the Hardware Sony made has Lag, it's Sony's fault. If Software Sony made has Lag with the Hardware sony made, it's sony's fault.

But if it's from a 3rd party, how the hell can you blame Sony for it?

Also, you guys give technology waaaay too little credit. Everything on the Arc is already around since 2004

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+demo&pl=true#

There is no reason (beyond Pessimistic Skepticism) to believe that Sony might Have not improved upon it's concept and execution.

I trully believe that the Arc just might be better than Natal for most games, and that Natal is a much more casual thing, and that BOTH surpass what Nintendo promised for the Wii and never really got there to do.

Sure, Motion controls are a craze that eventually will be scaled down... but it's not an awful thing. And proper execution only comes with proper Tools, and Sony just showed they have those tools... anyone has any Pre-launch tech demos that aren't over hyped commercials that shows the Wii doing anything beyond "Wiisports" level?

[DFM]

Natal will slice out a huge chunk of the market with their dynamicterrible and entirely scripted pedophile simulation.

Edit:

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

The fact of the matter is that there's absolutely nothing stopping people from not developing around it, so the people who do are more likely to either do a damn good job with it or pay the price if they don't.

Like sixaxis

[DFM]

I really have no idea what you're expecting them to pull off beside PlaySports.

EDIT: @DFM: SixAxis wasn't necessary to gameplay and thus was often treated poorly when it was used. On the other hand, the games that used it well (Flower and Folklore) used it well the same way anything is used well in games: it was made a core part of gameplay.

More likely we'll get a few gimmick/shovelware games that use it as a primary controller, a few AAA games that use it as a "Hey if you've got this thing we've got controls for it" half-assed scheme, and then everyone will forget it ever existed.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by DFM

I really have no idea what you're expecting them to pull off beside PlaySports.

Well, the tech demo itself had an RTS, and RTS is just one of those things that works best with point and click controls. Not that I'm into RTS, but it's still an interesting prospect.

Aside from that, FPS could easily see benefit from it, allowing much easier manual aiming, where console FPS in general relies on auto-targeting to compensate at this point.

You could also incorporate it into 3rd-person puzzle-solving in any number of genres.

Basically, there are definite places it could be used, and a couple off the top of my head where it would be of definite benefit.

[DFM]

All those things (Besides maybe the RTS, I'm not aware of an RTS) have already been done on the Wii and I don't think it rocked anyone's boxers or revolutionized motion controlling. Metro Prime maybe rocked boxers, but I don't think many other games have incorporated that control scheme.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by DFM

All those things (Besides maybe the RTS, I'm not aware of an RTS) have already been done on the Wii and I don't think it rocked anyone's boxers or revolutionized motion controlling. Metro Prime maybe rocked boxers, but I don't think many other games have incorporated that control scheme.

To be honest, I'm not expecting motion controls to become the standard until we get VR gloves that work on the market, but I tend to keep in mind that everything's been done before and I frankly don't care as long as it's done well.

And with that, I'm going to attempt to step out of the Arc conversation, which I really didn't expect to dominate the thread. I may not be successful, but at the moment, I'm out of things to say about it.

[phil_]

Originally Posted by DFM

Metro Prime maybe rocked boxers, but I don't think many other games have incorporated that control scheme.

Dude, every shooter on the Wii since Metroid Prime 3 has aped that control scheme, or at least the "Move with the stick, aim and turn with the pointer" bit.

I'll see myself out.