Why Is Man Creative? - Page 2

Seil · 05-01-2010, 02:13 AM

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Let's not kid ourselves here. You could put up a painting by Koko the Gorilla in the middle of a Jackson Pollock exhibit and no one would be the wiser.

There was a quote by someone - I'm not sure who - about perspective; they said that "If I showed you a rather rudimentary picture, you might say that it was total garbage. However, if I told you that the picture was done by a chimpanzee, you'd say 'Oh - well in that case, it's rather good for a chimpanzee.'"

POS Industries · 05-01-2010, 02:35 AM

As someone who's dabbled in abstract expressionism myself, I wouldn't exactly call the style "garbage," really.

And both Pollock and Koko were definitely better at it than I was.

Fifthfiend · 05-01-2010, 03:30 AM

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Why Is Man Creative?

So that man's work can be hotlinked on web forums in illegibly tiny resolution.

Professor Smarmiarty · 05-01-2010, 05:55 AM

The actual problem is that we developed these huge brains before we started exploiting tool use heavily and before they were seemingly useful.

Geminex · 05-01-2010, 06:02 AM

Well, when Sith said "tools" he didn't just include tie-a-rock-to-a-stick style contraptions, he also mentioned

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Language and art

Unless my bio teacher was bullshitting, evoluion of our large brains was largely driven by a need to interact and communicate with our tribes. The ability to build axes, make fire and gradually destroy our environment with one, the other, or both was just a fun extra.

BitVyper · 05-01-2010, 10:12 AM

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Yeah see you've fallen for the same fallacy almost all of us fall for.

To be fair, I think he meant size figuratively. It's just easier to refer to our "giant brains." Also our brains definitely are a lot larger than those of our ancestor species. Not the point, I know, but I'm just sayin.

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Our brain might have been big but it wasn't wired for the kind of abstract creative thinking we do now until tool use became an integral part of our survival.

Out of curiousity, when would you say that was? I mean, I'd say it seems like it was pretty important before Homo Sapiens was even a thing. Homo Ergaster (sp?) had Acheulian tools, which take a fair bit more thought than what came before. It's still not super-complex, but it shows refinement already, and makes it more likely that tools were being carried around for everyday use, since you couldn't just make them on the spot.

Sithdarth · 05-01-2010, 11:56 AM

I'm not sure anyone knows exactly when it happened. I'm relatively sure that it was probably when the climate changed and we moved onto the plains at least. That's when we had to go upright and when we had to significantly change how we survived. It seems like a good bet for when tools became really integral to survival.

CelesJessa · 05-01-2010, 12:40 PM

I'm just going with "art" because "creativity" is too obscure (because then you're bringing in things like creative problem solving, etc).

As far as art is concerned, it originally came about as a method of record keeping, I believe. Before written language, things such as cave paintings were used to chronicle things (and they tell us a lot about prehistoric cultures.) In languages like Chinese, those pictures eventually turned into their written language.

Because people back then were hunters and gatherers and would be traveling a lot, the oldest art was very large in size and left in the places so I imagine one could say that it was kind of a way to mark our territory, or at least to say that we had been there. Later cultures that were more permanently settled would make art that was more functional (like pottery). And a lot of art was made as deity worship.

(Yay art history?)

Wigmund · 05-01-2010, 02:07 PM

Mankind is creative as an elaborate natural defense for Earth-based lifeforms as a ruse so that when the advanced alien races come to judge us we'll be saved by the defense of "But they have art". And then when they least expect it, we'll slaughter them all because we're vicious bastards...just like chimpanzees and dolphins.

That's why the dinosaurs died out - they didn't have some kinda art so when the aliens came they were judged unworthy and received an asteroid to the face.

Professor Smarmiarty · 05-01-2010, 12:19 PM

No they had a pretty good idea when it happened and it was well before it was needed.
The leading idea was that climate change was one of the key factors in seperating the species in that those with more creative potential started to survive because they needed it. Brain varation happened before this though.
While the climate change was probably the selector there is a struggle to explain why some variations of humans created such massive brains before they were needed (and in this case, size actually is a reasonably indicator of complexity- somewhat total size but more importantly number of connections) as there was vastly more energy needed to create them.
Well this is me takig it on faifth from a guy I met at a conference but he was a leadign theoretical biologist so I trust that he knew what was he talking about.

05-01-2010, 02:35 AM	#2
POS Industries Argus Agony Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gotta go fishing! Posts: 10,483	As someone who's dabbled in abstract expressionism myself, I wouldn't exactly call the style "garbage," really. And both Pollock and Koko were definitely better at it than I was. __________________ Either you're dead or my watch has stopped.

05-01-2010, 12:40 PM	#8
CelesJessa DA-DA-DA-DAA DAA DAA DA DA-DAAAAAA! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Zanzibar Land Posts: 6,531	I'm just going with "art" because "creativity" is too obscure (because then you're bringing in things like creative problem solving, etc). As far as art is concerned, it originally came about as a method of record keeping, I believe. Before written language, things such as cave paintings were used to chronicle things (and they tell us a lot about prehistoric cultures.) In languages like Chinese, those pictures eventually turned into their written language. Because people back then were hunters and gatherers and would be traveling a lot, the oldest art was very large in size and left in the places so I imagine one could say that it was kind of a way to mark our territory, or at least to say that we had been there. Later cultures that were more permanently settled would make art that was more functional (like pottery). And a lot of art was made as deity worship. (Yay art history?) __________________

05-01-2010, 02:07 PM	#9
Wigmund Lakitu Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Northwest Arkansas Posts: 2,139	Mankind is creative as an elaborate natural defense for Earth-based lifeforms as a ruse so that when the advanced alien races come to judge us we'll be saved by the defense of "But they have art". And then when they least expect it, we'll slaughter them all because we're vicious bastards...just like chimpanzees and dolphins. That's why the dinosaurs died out - they didn't have some kinda art so when the aliens came they were judged unworthy and received an asteroid to the face. __________________ Slightly off-kilter

05-01-2010, 12:19 PM	#10
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	No they had a pretty good idea when it happened and it was well before it was needed. The leading idea was that climate change was one of the key factors in seperating the species in that those with more creative potential started to survive because they needed it. Brain varation happened before this though. While the climate change was probably the selector there is a struggle to explain why some variations of humans created such massive brains before they were needed (and in this case, size actually is a reasonably indicator of complexity- somewhat total size but more importantly number of connections) as there was vastly more energy needed to create them. Well this is me takig it on faifth from a guy I met at a conference but he was a leadign theoretical biologist so I trust that he knew what was he talking about. Last edited by Professor Smarmiarty; 05-01-2010 at 12:23 PM.

05-01-2010, 05:55 AM	#4
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	The actual problem is that we developed these huge brains before we started exploiting tool use heavily and before they were seemingly useful.

05-01-2010, 11:56 AM	#7
Sithdarth Friendly Neighborhood Quantum Hobo Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Outside the M-brane look'n in Posts: 5,403	I'm not sure anyone knows exactly when it happened. I'm relatively sure that it was probably when the climate changed and we moved onto the plains at least. That's when we had to go upright and when we had to significantly change how we survived. It seems like a good bet for when tools became really integral to survival.