The Black Panthers were fucking awesome - Page 3

Osterbaum · 05-24-2012, 07:00 AM

There are a lot of movements that while in no way stalinist, still have incorporated nationality or ethnic background in to their socialism one way or another. Like hell, take Che or the Zapatistas for example.

e: it's all about fighting the imperialists, which are often represented by North-American corporations.

e2: In Latin-America it is often part of their socialist agenda to get back their natural resources from foreign corporations and to not allow further interferance from foreign powers. And the foreign power they have in mind is more often than not the USA. So in a way nationalism is often part of their ideology. I suppose they see the US, a major foreign power, as a root of many of their problems either directly or indirectly by being the main advocate of US brand capitalism in the area. The counter reaction to capitalism is socialism, but at the same time the counter reaction to US government and corporations influence is nationalism.

Professor Smarmiarty · 05-24-2012, 08:49 AM

You're talking about socialism. Socialism and nationalism can be combined- thought the degree of socialism you can maintain under a national system is a point of contention but you can achieve some degree.
I'm talking about communism. Communism and nationalism can't be combined.
Like some of them call themselves communist groups but they don't make them communists unless you consider Stalinism as a legitimite path to communism (Hint: It isn't).
Also again the fight against "imperialism" is pretty much tied up with Stalinism. While say Marx and Lenin hadd lots to say about imperialism it was all to do with the economic factors controlling the world and never to do with viable alternatives to the capitalist order except in the extreme short term.

Osterbaum · 05-24-2012, 09:08 AM

Hah, yeah you are right: communism and nationalism dont mix. Somehow I didnt register that you said communism instead of socialism.

And I agree, stalinism is bullcrap.

Magus · 05-25-2012, 12:28 AM

The Black Panthers probably mostly get a bad rap because 1. white people can't tell the difference between them and the Nation of Islam and whoever all else and 2. Eldridge Cleaver, serial rapist (who in the most ironic twist of all time became a Mormon and Republican later in life!)

Also there was that white Black Panther in Forrest Gump and all the white people were like "I am confused and disoriented by this film."

05-24-2012, 07:00 AM	#1
Osterbaum The revolution will be memed! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: FIN Posts: 5,967	There are a lot of movements that while in no way stalinist, still have incorporated nationality or ethnic background in to their socialism one way or another. Like hell, take Che or the Zapatistas for example. e: it's all about fighting the imperialists, which are often represented by North-American corporations. e2: In Latin-America it is often part of their socialist agenda to get back their natural resources from foreign corporations and to not allow further interferance from foreign powers. And the foreign power they have in mind is more often than not the USA. So in a way nationalism is often part of their ideology. I suppose they see the US, a major foreign power, as a root of many of their problems either directly or indirectly by being the main advocate of US brand capitalism in the area. The counter reaction to capitalism is socialism, but at the same time the counter reaction to US government and corporations influence is nationalism. __________________ D is for Dirty Commie! Last edited by Osterbaum; 05-24-2012 at 08:12 AM.

05-24-2012, 08:49 AM	#2
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	You're talking about socialism. Socialism and nationalism can be combined- thought the degree of socialism you can maintain under a national system is a point of contention but you can achieve some degree. I'm talking about communism. Communism and nationalism can't be combined. Like some of them call themselves communist groups but they don't make them communists unless you consider Stalinism as a legitimite path to communism (Hint: It isn't). Also again the fight against "imperialism" is pretty much tied up with Stalinism. While say Marx and Lenin hadd lots to say about imperialism it was all to do with the economic factors controlling the world and never to do with viable alternatives to the capitalist order except in the extreme short term. Last edited by Professor Smarmiarty; 05-24-2012 at 09:08 AM.

05-24-2012, 09:08 AM	#3
Osterbaum The revolution will be memed! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: FIN Posts: 5,967	Hah, yeah you are right: communism and nationalism dont mix. Somehow I didnt register that you said communism instead of socialism. And I agree, stalinism is bullcrap. __________________ D is for Dirty Commie!

05-25-2012, 12:28 AM	#4
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	The Black Panthers probably mostly get a bad rap because 1. white people can't tell the difference between them and the Nation of Islam and whoever all else and 2. Eldridge Cleaver, serial rapist (who in the most ironic twist of all time became a Mormon and Republican later in life!) Also there was that white Black Panther in Forrest Gump and all the white people were like "I am confused and disoriented by this film." __________________ The Valiant Review Last edited by Magus; 05-25-2012 at 12:30 AM.