IT'S FUCKIN' HOT AND WE'RE KILLIN' ALL THE WHALES

[Xaeta]

and what happens when human leave the circle of life?

[42PETUNIAS]

There was an article in the Globe and Mail (Canadian newspaper) the other day about what would happen if humans suddenly died out. I'll try and post a link if I can find it.

Edit: Turns out you need to be a paying member of the website, or to buy the article. Here it is anyways, in case someone wants it.

[Sithdarth]

if the bears died off...we'd be overrun with salmon.

doesn't seem like a big deal, but it really is...too many salmon means not enough bugs which means bats go hungry and many birds and then everything dies off and the sun explodes.

it's called the circle of life for a reason....come on folks, go watch the lion king!

Except for this:

Bears have been known to prey on large mammals such as moose, deer, sheep, caribou and even black bears. Grizzly bears will feed on fish such as salmon, trout, and bass, and those with access to a more protein-enriched diet in coastal areas potentially grow larger than interior individuals. Grizzly bears will readily scavenge food, behavior that can lead them into conflict with other species, such as wolves and humans.

So getting rid of bears could lead to any number of problems with a large number of prey species directly. Not to mention the species that Grizzly Bears are in direct competition with like the Grey Wolf. Then there is an even larger cascade of secondary effects and its just never a good thing.

[Used_Potato]

Heading back toward the topic...

Originally Posted by 42PETUNIAS

There was an article in the Globe and Mail (Canadian newspaper) the other day about what would happen if humans suddenly died out. I'll try and post a link if I can find it.

Edit: Turns out you need to be a paying member of the website, or to buy the article. Here it is anyways, in case someone wants it.

Although it required me to subscribe in order to view it...

Somewhere we got the crazy idea that it was all about us. You can even see it in the word we use to describe the world we're bent on ruining: the environment - the stuff that surrounds the mammal with the outsized brain who almost by definition (our definition, of course) is at the centre of things.

I have a fairly good idea of where he's going. >_>

Somehow he got the crazy idea that it wasn't all about us. Even if you reject man as being more than just a greater-evolved organism, you have to admit that we're the only lifeforms on this planet capable of rational thought. We can project statements that assert something to be true or false. We can not only simply adapt to changing circumstances, but go to great lengths to modify or even improve them. We can can transmit information to nonliving mediums (i.e. paper) and pass down information from generation to generation via indirect, non-biological means. HUMANS BUILT THE FUCKING COMPUTERS WE ARE USING TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW. As soon as I hear a dog talk, or see an underwater hospital built by a dolphin, I'll retract my beliefs, but as for now...

So we're basically running the show here. Doesn't mean that we don't have the capacity to sympathize for animals, (another trait they don't have that we do) and it's perfectly fine to care for them and prevent their extinction. But when we become negatively affected by the effort required to do that, that's where the line is drawn.

[Azisien]

Yes, we've gained a very powerful trait other animals haven't been graced with. I don't consider that a rationale to overexploit (and perhaps destroy ourselves in the process) the planet and annihilate other species.

Sorry, but maybe dolphins will reach a critical mass and uh, "ascend" or whatever you want to call it. We won't really know, especially not if we drive them to extinction. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, our exceedingly powerful trait is still bound to humans. Yeah, dogs don't talk. But then, our communicative abilities, vast as they are, barely extend beyond other human beings. We make the most primitive contact with other higher mammals, while I've got a stinking suspicion (just a suspicion mind you) they understand each other a whole lot better. As good, or almost as good, as humans can understand other humans.

I just don't think it's our place to be dominating the planet with the highly wasteful, Western mindset. On the other hand, this is a value-laden discussion. To me, most life (including humans) and even natural systems have value. To others, they do not; instead, the almighty dollar probably holds more value. It's a brick wall, more or less. There is no convincing anyone of anything, if they simply don't see the value in a cause.

"If we don't stop draining the wetlands, we'll put several endemic species in danger of extinction."

"So?"

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by Azisien

Sorry, but maybe dolphins will reach a critical mass and uh, "ascend" or whatever you want to call it.

If it ever happens, we're fucked.

[Faolin]

ohhh when humans die out the ozone will already have been completely depleted i'm sure, all drinkable water will have been poisoned, and i'm sure some nuclear and/or biological war would have been fared, so everything would die out except cockroaches.

and twinkies.

[Odjn]

Don't we have too many bears and too few wolves?

Also, since we're needing some food supplies and salmon are declining anyway killing bears might be <gasp> overall beneficial.

[ArlanKels]

Originally Posted by Odjn

Don't we have too many bears and too few wolves?

Also, since we're needing some food supplies and salmon are declining anyway killing bears might be <gasp> overall beneficial.

I hate to interrupt again but this is one of the funnier things out there.

You see, in my area the deer population is increasing so much(Even with the reintroduction of the coyote) that it's becoming TOO populated.


Yet if people went and killed the excess deer..? Well, we could help deal with starvation in at least America. If coyote had never been reintroduced we'd be swimming in deer right now, as they actually did make a dent in the deer population.

[Odjn]

Huh. Why don't we eat deer in supermarkets again?

Oh, that's right. Corporations.