Pokemon Umbral Discussion 36: Questions Are Overrated

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Same for Menarker. All I have for Renny is that he's a cute li'l munchkin with messy blond hair. No eye color or clothes to speak of. Please tell me that he does wear something. I'd hate to think that all this time, Renny as a 16-year old boy has been running around and fighting while stark naked.

*STREAKS in front of all the ladies, jumping with excitement and eagerness* >_> That would explain an awful lot why almost everyone was so adamant not to get hugged by Renny in the RP's early stage!

Although now I got the mental image of the beach episode where Renny's trunks are stolen/ripped off (Spitz doing a vicious verson of a Coppertone ad?)or something and he's streaking down trying to find clothing or something. (No invisibility bonus for imitating Elan!)

Although I did post one or twice that he had gotten changed, especially for the party (and the second one)

Anyhow, clear blue eyes bright with passion and light. ^^ As for clothing, he'd wear long shorts that reach a bit past the knees, runners, a light comfortable t-shirt and a light jacket he always wears unzipped during good weather. Wears a belt with pokeballs (Luxury Balls, so they are black, but I won't mind if you have to show normal balls in the sprite comic due to ease or lack of appropriate sprite)

Well, everyone, I'm back safe and sound. Had a good time, saw lots of places and even got a girlfriend more or less. ^^

Originally Posted by Geminex

Well, that'd involve giving Renny The Talk, and I'm not sure whether Impact's qualified to do that.

...

Next comic. Rayleen. Renny. The Talk. MAKE HAPPEN.

Given all the ladies stripping in front of him, sleeping in his bed, catching Moon and Shannon in the act, seeing a bit of Evangaleen's recordings, he probably knows a bit here and there. You know... on top of NOT being a idiot.

However, it WOULD be amusing to have people think he still doesn't know and trying to teach him things in the process. Pierce also seems to have volunteered one of his NPCs in the attempt to educatecorrupt him.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

With quite a large number of bosses and a good variety of foes even before including Pokemon units, Pierce's sidequest is going to be quite a ruckus.

And funnily enough, Pierce's part may be the most normal of 'em all.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Oh. Allrighty then. Never mind my prattling.
...
Could he, like, set up a series of challenges? Maybe a Very Lethal Obstacle Course. Or a gladiatorial arena. Or wrestling!
Or a combination of the three, fuck yeah. Renny vs. Charlotte vs. Pierce. First to two points gets leadership.
...
That'd cool, guys? Right?
...
Right?

Either Charlotte would win, or Pierce would win.

See, Impact would get ganged up on from the start. Then it'd be down to Pierce and Charlotte.

Charlotte has a shotgun, which is either going to be her instant win button... or it won't. So it comes down to a coin toss.

[Geminex]

Impact wouldn't participate, you dolt. He'd be going 'Hey, whoever kills everyone else gets to be leader!'. He'd be the mysterious mastermind, watching your desperate, bloody struggle via armored cctv cameras, the kind of guy who asks you if you would like to play a game, and then does so regardless of your answer.

Also, what the fuck, people? How is there an RP that everyone in this RP has joined, except for me? I feel left-out! It's like you don't like me or something.

[Menarker]

Gem, I'm reading over the negotiation and the deals therein between you and "everyone" although mainly Drac, and you're saying that everyone benefits out of this. For me, I'm not quite seeing that. From what I'm seeing...

A: Impact stops being leader: I didn't care so much either way, especially since my deal in the first place was to support you initially for leader. It basically just means you're freeing me from something I agreed to in the first place. You also didn't answer my question about whether you/Impact would keep to his promise of helping Renny with Lola and the afforded protection therein... or if that would be null and voided too, which would make that entire thing a negative since you had your chance of being leader which means I did my part with Renny supporting Impact but not getting anything back and thus not holding up your part of the former deal.

B: Charlotte will be leader: Once again, not totally enthuasiatic about it, but no actual complaints roleplaying wise or OOC, since it more or less doesn't involve Renny or myself. Bard seems to benefit lots from this, unless he's secretly wishing that someone else wants to be leader.

C: Drac gets to lose his owing you a favor and is sure to be next leader if Charlotte loses leader status. No issues, but once again not involving me. Overall plus for Drac in my view.

D: Toughening up how we deal with techniques and powers and such, with all standards organized by you. Which was something we have contested with majorly as this gives you an awful lot of power for something that influences all the other players, and for something I feel should be dealt with on an individual basis and on the basis of the characters and the only sole power being the GM. This is basically a big negative for me initially as well as the others if it turns out our worries were justified in the end.

E: Dante seems to have no vocal opinionschords either way. He either finds it beneficial or neutrally acceptable and doesn't care to ask for something that'll suit him.



So as it stands, the deal is unfavorable. The major cruxes of the deal from what I see is the transfer of leadership and the re-organization of rules/powers.
That Charlotte is leader is specifying the end result of a cause and effect of what happens when you leave as leader, since there has to be a new leader or the group ends up being a senate or some other democratic system that is impossible to use feasibly in combat situations. While you do more or less intend to stay in power to some extent in some other way, you have a hand in choosing the leader by choosing Charlotte (which doesn't seem to effect anyone really negatively, but is a bonus for you since you more or less dislike or hate the other candidates for leader)
The toughening of rules and standards using your measuring stick is a risky addition to the deal, but is cruical since this is the major reason why you're willing to depart from being leader in the first place. Of course, giving you this sort of power has set off a lot of alarms. So you had to reassure us by specifying your policy and/or giving deals to make the entire offer seem platable.

Charlotte gets leadership and thus the chance to really run wild. That and Bard doesn't seem to personally object too much. It seems that Bard is fine more or less with the deal then.

Dante as mentioned above doesn't seem to care too much either way, although technically the deal is still disadvantagous for him since you're holding sway over powers and abilities that really belong to his character.

Drac had issues with your agreement, so that's where you went into negotiation phase and basically worked out that he would be next leader and his favor forgotten. This basically is a token of good faith that he'll still benefit and thrive even when giving you a larger role in handling how his character is able to develop.


I however am stuck in negative because the transfer of leadership really does almost nothing for me, so what is left is what you have to say about your policy for how game-balance would be moderated, which is a lot of power to give to someone who is actually an active player and not a GM. It is no secret that I tend to be more liberal in giving myself and other people strong stuff while you seem to have a more conservative history of wanting to balance it out to fit a certain invisible level, normally lowering it in the process (not trying to demonize you since you have made concessions before). Since the two of us are more or less opposites and see character abilities in different ways, both as the individual as well as in a group setting, things are more or less at an impasse. In order for me to more or less accept the proposed deal, you would have to...

A: Be more specific on how this would work so we aren't under any false impression or misunderstandings on what everyone's expections are (have some sort of policy made for us to check out or something?) You said you'll write it up in a bit, so I look forward to seeing the finished result.

B: Offer me something (negotiate) that'll somehow result in making me feel that somehow I can trust that you won't suddenly yank the chain when we propose something critical about our character. Much the same thing you did with Drac, making someone feel easier about trusting you with something quite game-changing.

C: Maybe some sort of leeway involved if character development related things are addressed in advance, so that any percieved character concepts or ability can be worked out smoothly. For example, let's pretend I eventually wanted Renny to be able to send more than 2 pokemons out at a time (maybe taking up slots of other NPC trainers if none of their pokemons are suitable for the situation) as an example of power through friendship, teamwork, numbers and diversity. Let's say that I intend to maximize the potential of such an ability by taking the Snagger class (so I can have a larger size of maximum pokemons I can carry with me and thus a larger diverse pool of elements and techniques to choose from). I would be OUTRAGED if I took the snagger class in antipication of one day getting that ability when I reach the right level, only to have it rejected utterly when proposed and thus making the levels wasted.


Phew, that was a long rant. Excuse me if I poorly explained or misrepresented your position. Still tired from an entire day of flying. (Also forgive me for stating this now, but not only was I busy on vacation, but you were already busy with Drac and I didn't want to complicate things by throwing everything I just said in the middle of it.)

Anyhow, looking forward to what you got to say.

[Dracorion]

Menarker:

+1 Cool Point.

[Astral Harmony]

A comic about giving Renny the talk, eh?

...

Pfft ha ha ha ha ha! Right, I'll totally do that. I'm eager to think up how each girl will react to Renny asking her the question?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Edit: As for Pierce and Charlotte, well, I think Pierce is committed to Tyranitar, and Charlotte is almost as asexual as Impact, so...

She has had some relationship problems over the years. She doesn't talk about it (or her personal life in general) because sees all of you simply as something slightly less than co-workers.

And I am trying to shoot for the leader thing, believe, but I won't be too dissapointed or displeased if it falls through.

Who knows, maybe Charlotte will get sick of it and give the job off to someone else, but that simply depends.

[Geminex]

Grrraaaargh.
This annoys me.
See, I could have sworn that you showed preliminary agreement to all of this. That it seemed like you would NOT OBJECT.

Buuut very well. A less kind and understanding individual would accuse you of foul play, but your objections are not too large. I will assume good faith.

I won't quote your points, just respond.
Nooo... I'm not benefiting from the transition from Impact to Charlotte. Sure, it's better than some of the alternatives, but I'm still losing power. Certainly I'm losing more effective power than I'm gaining with the ability to set up these rules.

And, once again, these rules are soley to be used to improve this RP. I'll set them up (with, like I repeatedly said, your collective feedback), but afterwards I'll have to abide by them as much as you do. I can argue by them, of course, I can say 'Your ability isn't balanced because it violates rule three', but I can't say 'No, that's overpowered because I SAY SO.' And besides, the point of these rules is that I don't even need to say it. The point is that you go 'Oh, welp, might be a bit overpowered to have 4 pokemon on the field at once. I'd certainly be stronger than most other characters, it violates rule 3! I'd better nerf it, maybe by adding a Rage cost per turn for additional pokemon', and, as such, you yourself only making this suggestion if it seems fair to you. And, like I said also, this would involve all of you really obeying the spirit of the law.

Because I don't have the will or energy to make huge, long paragraphs, or meticulously detailed rules, nor do I want to police this. We'll play this by ear. We'll have to. And, like I said, will trust you to live up to your sides of the deal. Good faith.

Yes, I am going to trust you all with balancing.
...
Y'know, when I think of it that way, this plan seems a lot worse all of a sudden.

Still, would that be acceptable?

[Dracorion]

I think Menarker's problem is that when you say the rules are solely to be used for balance, you mean your definition of balance. Which he may not believe to be the correct one.

There should probably be a paragraph detailing more or less what goes or what doesn't, in as general terms as possible if you want. Basically, we need some sort of guidelines to follow otherwise you know you're going to be bitching and calling foul play every time someone suggests something, Geminex.

And the guidelines would have to be discussed, obviously.

[Geminex]

What d'you mean? I've alread detailed repeatedly what standards the rules will invoke, and what their aim will be. Just look at my post history.

And what's this?

There should probably be a paragraph detailing more or less what goes or what doesn't, in as general terms as possible if you want. Basically, we need some sort of guidelines to follow otherwise you know you're going to be bitching and calling foul play every time someone suggests something, Geminex.

And the guidelines would have to be discussed, obviously.

Like I said, I've already posted the 'general detail'. And all I said was that I wouldn't write up really meticulous rules; there's probably gonna be several paragraphs' worth of guidelines, at least! Of course there'll be, I won't just make up some magical fantasy rules and keep you guessing as to what they actually are!
God, man, there's a difference between 'play it by the ear and trust you not to purposefully misinterpret the guidelines' and 'COMPLETE ANARCHY!'. I'm going for the former and hope it doesn't devolve into the latter.

So, to recap, I've already given a general description of what the guidelines will entail; of course they'll be detailed further, what do you take me for; hell, I even mentioned that in the actual deal, did you actually read it?; and also, you smell. And also, just so none of you get pissy, I've again detailed the purpose of these guidelines down there.

Because see, even if these rules weren't detailed I wouldn't bitch or call foul play at every chance! Of course not, I have nothing against people having power! The things I wanna prevent are (are here's pretty much your 'outline'):
- One character becoming stronger than the others character. Sure, let them specialize differently, let them focus on a certain task, be more useful in some situations than in others. But let us, to the best of our ability, ensure that, throughout a mission, and, really, the entire RP, all characters are of equal value in combat. In addition to that, though these are more minor, power growth shouldn't be too sudden, and, more importantly, specialization should be an issue. I've explained it before, but just to recap again: Specialization? Fine. Multiple specialization? Great! One or two changes that suddenly make a character perfectly feasible in a role that he previously wasn't feasible in? Nope.
- A few changes drastically modifying the battle system. Back in the day (meaning, like, discussion 12 or so), I'm sure you all remember the Great Battle Of Psych-Up. I protested so heavily against that because I felt that, the way it was used, it'd change combat really, really strongly. And sure, combat should change. But it should become more, rather than less, 'complex', and it should change gradually, rather than with just a few new strategies, or level-ups.

Now... I do hope tH4T YOU 4R3 S4T1SF13D.