Boxing

[BitVyper]

Originally Posted by Kyanbu The Legend

I use to think they where just a way of showing rank or level of skill in Martial Arts.

It depends on the school, but I wouldn't take them as an indicator of skill for the most part. My non-snarky feeling about belt colours is that there's so many in a lot of schools that they become worthless as individual markers of achievement, which defeats the whole purpose.

Edit: Not that a person shouldn't take any pride as they get better, just that I think there's more to be proud of with an achievement when it's something you have to really work for.

[Darth SS]

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

mixed martial arts is the most effective road for actually defending yourself.

If you don't want to get hurt, Run Fu is the most effective way to do it.

If running isn't an option then it don't really matter what system you practice as long as you know 1) how to apply the techniques in a non-sporting context and 2) you've actually trained in the mindset that you are trying to hurt/maim/kill the person you're hitting. MMA is really useful if going to ground is a totally viable option, the eyes/throat/crotch are not valid targets, and small joint manipulations aren't "allowed." Of course at this point you're likely noticing that those conditions are ridiculous. And, by the way, MMA as it's commonly taught is a sport hybrid of Muay Thai, Boxing, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Judo. In my experience, going to ground is the worst possible thing that you can ever do in a real life situation. You don't know who they are, you don't know what they know and you don't know if they have any weapons on them. Why would you put yourself in a situation where you can't see their hands? Furthermore, those areas are the fastest ways to either "defuse" someone or at the very least decrease their ability to cause you harm.

My Krav Maga instructor works on the side as a bouncer at the bar with the highest knife crime rate in Canada. I occasionally work at a bar in Saskatoon when they need extra bodies on their teams for busy night. We're both students, so we'll both take the convenient jobs when we can get them, hence the bouncing. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen someone in a TapouT shirt think that he knows how to roll take a swing at him only to be completely amazed when he ducks off to the the side and full on slaps them in the throat. The slap isn't a manly attack, right? And the throat isn't fair, right?

One of my friends is from Montreal and has practiced Savate since he was 6. One night when we were working I remember some guy telling him to back off and let him and his buds enjoy their drinks, otherwise he was going to give him "real trouble." As I'm walking over I see this guy take a swing at my buddy who calmly ranges out and does (what I call) a piston to this guy's hip. Seeing him on one leg, this guy tries to "shoot" at my buddy and get him to ground, thinking he's GSP or something. As a response he just flips his hips and unloads a high kick right into this guy's eyes and drops him like a ton of bricks. Commence screaming, tackling by multiple bouncers and the usual removal. Boom, 230+ MMA-wannabe put on the ground by a 160 (maybe) Frenchman.

I've seen guys break out Aikido, Krav Maga, Savate, even a Wing Chun guy at varying degrees of effectiveness. There's no real "best" martial art. Whoever is the best trained is probably the guy who's going to "win" is the reality of it. Note: Best does not mean most. Mindset is an important part of this. If you're trying to "win" you're going to get wrecked by the guy who is trying to survive.

So...practice running first. Then find what works for you.

[Hanuman]

Now Krav Maga is something I can really respect, GREAT example of a martial art who's design was based on a contemporary and very valid scenario/environment.

Also, fyi Wing Chun is just bastardized tai chi meant for rapid absorption as it would take 10 times longer to learn properly and you probably would spend 10 times longer looking for a good tai chi teacher than a good wing chun teacher ;]

[Professor Smarmiarty]

The most effective form of defendign yourself is being Bruce Lee.

[Corel]

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

The most effective form of defendign yourself is being Bruce Lee.

Six feet of solid earth between you and your attacker is a sure deterrent to even the most tenacious of people.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I've heard good reviews of giving yourselves rabies.

[BitVyper]

Having six german shepherds with you at all times works pretty well too. I've never known a man surrounded by loyal german shepherds to lose a fight.

Edit: In fact, maybe I'll make that my superhero gimmick - I'll be like Squirrel Girl, but with big dogs instead. I'll call myself Justice Hound. My motto will be "I've got a bone to pick with crime."

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by Darth SS

truth

I agree with all of this. On the other hand, part of what I was referring to was the type of place that skips out on the "honor" bits of things. I mean, there's definitely a time and place for that, but in my experience, the things that traditional martial arts get right are:

1. Telling you not to be stupid and fight unnecessarily and
2. Telling you to use only necessary force

while the things they get wrong include:

1. Failing to take into account that at some point, you're going to have to fight dirty and
2. Failing to take into account that a real opponent probably WILL fight dirty.

While the things they get right are admirable, the things they get wrong are dangerous. That's why I ended up getting disillusioned with traditional instruction, because I had the misfortune of learning the latter two the hard way through literally no fault of my own, and when I asked my teacher how I might prevent that particular kind of beatdown from happening again, he couldn't, or wouldn't, give me an answer and I ended up never talking about it to anyone else because I was scared shitless of it happening again until I was actually pulled into the office for clocking someone a year later.

When it finally came out, it shocked the hell out of the police liaison officer and my mom ended up threatening legal action. By that point, at roughly ten years old, I'd already basically thrown honor out the window.

[BitVyper]

1. Failing to take into account that at some point, you're going to have to fight dirty and
2. Failing to take into account that a real opponent probably WILL fight dirty.

I can't speak for everything, but I know from experience that Shinkage ryu kenjutsu deals specifically with number 2. Especially when it comes to tanto and fan stuff. Granted, a lot of that isn't really applicable anymore, but it is there. What little I know of some softer styles seems to address it as well, probably because there's more opportunity for nastier things when you're grappling.

Another thing to consider is that for stuff that was actually being used, students were probably picking up that sort of thing from experience since they weren't necessarily spending twenty years training or fighting in the ring without ever taking it into battle. Probably part of the reason it's not built into a lot of systems is because in times of war, you might be learning it for real before you'd even built a strong foundation, and in times of peace it's easier to have the idea that everyone will fight by the book.

That's just speculation though.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by BitVyper

I can't speak for everything, but I know from experience that Shinkage ryu kenjutsu deals specifically with number 2. Especially when it comes to tanto and fan stuff. Granted, a lot of that isn't really applicable anymore, but it is there. What little I know of some softer styles seems to address it as well, probably because there's more opportunity for nastier things when you're grappling.

Another thing to consider is that for stuff that was actually being used, students were probably picking up that sort of thing from experience since they weren't necessarily spending twenty years training or fighting in the ring without ever taking it into battle. Probably part of the reason it's not built into a lot of systems is because in times of war, you might be learning it for real before you'd even built a strong foundation, and in times of peace it's easier to have the idea that everyone will fight by the book.

That's just speculation though.

Well, for reference, Tae Kwon Do is pretty heavily strike-based, and it's damn good at it. A well-placed kick can literally launch your opponent. That's not to say there's no grappling whatsoever, in fact, there are plenty of throws, too, but there aren't really very many holds that I'm aware of, and the ones I am are generally joint locks that you're supposed to turn offensive. Basically, holding isn't the focus here.

...I had a point in there somewhere.

At any rate, the only experience I have is with that in my own formal training and what I picked up through observation, so take what I say with a grain of salt. My experience would not surprise me if it were plain just shitty given the studio I went to for much of it.