E3 2014 thread or MS's redemption? - Page 12

Gregness · 06-12-2014, 01:16 PM

Okay, I get being inclusive with playable characters, but I don't think I follow you on this one Kim. Link is an established character (the quality and quantity of said characterization is a separate argument) and has always been male. Like, adding in the option of playing a female link sort of strikes me as being similar to being able to play a male Samus, Lara Croft, or Jade.

EDIT: On a second read-through it was Bard who suggested having the option, so I suppose the comment should be more directed to him. I'd appreciate comments if you'd like to give them anyway though, Kim.

Ryong · 06-12-2014, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc v4.0

I'm having trouble thinking of any that aren't from Nintendo, honestly. Lara Craft. Do games with customization count if all they showed was default white male option, because that would expand to Destiny and DA:I as well I guess.

Remember, this is Protagonists, not just people 'in the trailers'.

The thing is, there's a lot of army-based games and all of them have the default "white army dude in his 20~30s". This isn't restricted to games, though.

Marc v4.0 · 06-12-2014, 01:22 PM

Uh..ok?

Ryong · 06-12-2014, 01:29 PM

I mean that that's part of the issue on why are there so many white male protagonists. Not saying other games will always have better representation of women and minorities, but army games tend to have it the worst and there were a lot of them this E3.

Bard The 5th LW · 06-12-2014, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregness

Okay, I get being inclusive with playable characters, but I don't think I follow you on this one Kim. Link is an established character (the quality and quantity of said characterization is a separate argument) and has always been male. Like, adding in the option of playing a female link sort of strikes me as being similar to being able to play a male Samus, Lara Croft, or Jade.

EDIT: On a second read-through it was Bard who suggested having the option, so I suppose the comment should be more directed to him. I'd appreciate comments if you'd like to give them anyway though, Kim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Article Kim posted

Aonuma added that Link is meant to represent the player, and he doesn't want fans to focus on the character so much that they lose sight of the other elements in the trailer.

I was talking about this bit of the article. If they want Link to be his own character then sure, keep him as a dude. But my thoughts are that if they want him to be an extension of the player, then it'd behoove them to make a more customizable protagonist. But then, it'd probably be less a LoZ game and more of just a broader RPG.

Kim · 06-12-2014, 01:42 PM

Link is an established character is a poor argument when it's literally canon that 90% of Link's are different people. If you want Link to be an extension of the player, make him gender neutral or let players choose. The only Zelda games where he's really been a character in any meaningful way were Windwaker and Skyward Sword, and no element of his characterization in either hinged upon his gender.

rpgdemon · 06-12-2014, 06:14 PM

The thing is, Link could already be gender neutral. Like, I don't see how it'd change the game at all, if he were.

To me, he is in no way presented as male or female, especially the further into the series you get, the only thing making him "male" is his presumed physical body, and other people calling him "him"?

Given Link's characterization, I really don't think he'd actually make a point out of it, were he gender neutral, nor do I think it'd even come up in-game. He's generally not the sort who corrects someone when they start calling him the wrong thing (See countless characters who call him silly nicknames like "Grasshopper", without even asking his input about it). In most of his characterizations, he's very much his own person, and doesn't really care what other people call him.

Kim · 06-12-2014, 06:20 PM

People refer to him as a boy in the games and use male pronouns. The games don't handle him in a gender neutral way. Even the recurring romance elements between him and other characters are based in heterocentrism and interpreting the character as male by the developers. Honestly, the "he wouldn't correct them" seems pretty weak because these characters aren't actually people. Every line of dialogue is written by someone. The writers aren't going to have the world consistently gender a character who literally cannot argue unless that reflects the writers own gendering of the character

I think Link should be gender neutral, but I also think that means the games need to be written in such a way as to reflect that.

Solid Snake · 06-12-2014, 06:23 PM

Regardless of Link's gender or sexuality, I just gotta say:
New Link is ssssoooo fuckin' sexy

Kim · 06-12-2014, 06:30 PM

petition to have midna in zelda wii u so she can domme the fuck out of him

06-12-2014, 01:16 PM	#111
Gregness Never give up. Never give in. Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 1,034	Okay, I get being inclusive with playable characters, but I don't think I follow you on this one Kim. Link is an established character (the quality and quantity of said characterization is a separate argument) and has always been male. Like, adding in the option of playing a female link sort of strikes me as being similar to being able to play a male Samus, Lara Croft, or Jade. EDIT: On a second read-through it was Bard who suggested having the option, so I suppose the comment should be more directed to him. I'd appreciate comments if you'd like to give them anyway though, Kim. __________________ A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - Robert Heinlein Last edited by Gregness; 06-12-2014 at 01:20 PM.

06-12-2014, 01:22 PM	#113
Marc v4.0 Fight Me, Nerds Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,470	Uh..ok? __________________

06-12-2014, 01:42 PM	#116
Kim adorable Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12,950	Link is an established character is a poor argument when it's literally canon that 90% of Link's are different people. If you want Link to be an extension of the player, make him gender neutral or let players choose. The only Zelda games where he's really been a character in any meaningful way were Windwaker and Skyward Sword, and no element of his characterization in either hinged upon his gender. __________________ this post is about how to successfully H the Kimmy

06-12-2014, 06:14 PM	#117
rpgdemon Not a Taco Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,313	The thing is, Link could already be gender neutral. Like, I don't see how it'd change the game at all, if he were. To me, he is in no way presented as male or female, especially the further into the series you get, the only thing making him "male" is his presumed physical body, and other people calling him "him"? Given Link's characterization, I really don't think he'd actually make a point out of it, were he gender neutral, nor do I think it'd even come up in-game. He's generally not the sort who corrects someone when they start calling him the wrong thing (See countless characters who call him silly nicknames like "Grasshopper", without even asking his input about it). In most of his characterizations, he's very much his own person, and doesn't really care what other people call him. __________________ I did a lot of posting on here as a teenager, and I was pretty awful. Even after I learned, grew up, and came to be on the right side of a lot of important issues, I was still angry, abrasive, and generally increased the amount of hate in the world, in pretty unacceptable ways. On the off chance that someone is taking a trip down memory lane looking through those old threads, I wanted to devote my signature to say directly to you, I'm sorry. Thank you for letting me be better, NPF.

06-12-2014, 06:20 PM	#118
Kim adorable Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12,950	People refer to him as a boy in the games and use male pronouns. The games don't handle him in a gender neutral way. Even the recurring romance elements between him and other characters are based in heterocentrism and interpreting the character as male by the developers. Honestly, the "he wouldn't correct them" seems pretty weak because these characters aren't actually people. Every line of dialogue is written by someone. The writers aren't going to have the world consistently gender a character who literally cannot argue unless that reflects the writers own gendering of the character I think Link should be gender neutral, but I also think that means the games need to be written in such a way as to reflect that. __________________ this post is about how to successfully H the Kimmy

06-12-2014, 01:29 PM	#114
Ryong Professional Threadkiller Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil Posts: 3,798	I mean that that's part of the issue on why are there so many white male protagonists. Not saying other games will always have better representation of women and minorities, but army games tend to have it the worst and there were a lot of them this E3.

06-12-2014, 06:23 PM	#119
Solid Snake Erotic Esquire Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,563	BRB going to write inappropriate New Link fanfiction Regardless of Link's gender or sexuality, I just gotta say: New Link is *ssssoooo fuckin' sexy* __________________ *WARNING:* Snek's all up in this thread. Be prepared to read massive walls of text.

06-12-2014, 06:30 PM	#120
Kim adorable Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12,950	petition to have midna in zelda wii u so she can domme the fuck out of him __________________ this post is about how to successfully H the Kimmy