Talking about Mass Effect 3 With Spoilers

[Bells]

So, i finally finished Mass Effect 2. Full paragon, everyone saved. Feeling really proud about it too! Great game, awesome story and it manages to make you feel epic about your actions...

I couldn't help but notice all the subtle hints from ME2 that lead right into ME3, maybe i don't have the full picture here, but let us brainstorm anyways...

So, i ended up romancing Tali. It was teh easiest Conversation tree ever, the girl was pratically tossing herself at me! The game makes it quite clear that Tali is your Paragon romance... Miranda and Jack... i'm kinda mixed about it. One of the mis your "Neutral" or "Mixed" Romance, and the other is your Renegade romance. Not sure about which one is which if you look ahead... All the other seem like Flavor text to me...

Now, ME3 is the last one, and they seem to be making the transfer from ME2 into a much bigger deal than it was in ME1... still early to see how that plays out, but there are some obvious things...

I mean, it's clear Cerberus is evil, or at least misguided. They will turn on you, you will fight them. Shepard is heading to Earth and my Bet is that Cerberus gets there first and turns the people Agaisnt Shepard with propaganda, calling him an Alien Synpathizer.... not a stretch considering all the aliens he Sympathize with...

With that on note, i would bet Miranda turns on you too... but not Jacob. And at that point your relationship with her on ME2 probably has a lot of Weight to it.

The game is likely to have you Collecting allies in the Galaxy and then heading for earth where you'll probably jump around from major city to major city. London and New York are almost certain. You can bet tehre will be a "Jungle Level" and a "Snow Level" and a Desert one on earth... so i'm betting South America, Russia and Africa for that.

On your current team, i wouldn't be surprised if some died. New teammates need to join, afterall... My guess is with Mordin and Thane going out first. Than is already dying (and that loose end never gets tied on ME2) and Mordin has solved all his issues. Or maybe he just won't be on the field anymore...

It might be just a hunch, but i would give Legion more exposion on the next game, i just think there is something to the fact that he holded on to Shepard's old armor.

Garrus and Grunt i would imagine that will stay around...

The fact that you can Romance Thane, and that he is Dying is just another indicator for me that You will loose one romantic interst early on. So if you romanced Miranda or Thane on ME2, that would have tragic consequences on ME3 (so maybe Miranda will die too)

I would say your team from ME1 would return in the "first arc" of the game, helping Shepard getting his allies, but i would not expect the Romance from ME1 to carry any effect beyond Dialog on ME3.

Considering that EDI is now "On Shepard's Side" and at the same time, She has become the Normandy.. i would Suggest that Cerberus tries to reclaim your Ship by remotely controlling her (maybe that would be the point where Miranda Betrays shepard), and that Joker manages to make EDI break free from Cerberus entirely, giving you your ship back.

All and all, you can see the picture of ME3 forming on the Horizon... not a lot of Surprised but the quality is always high so i have big hopes for this one. I'm keeping my ME2 Save and see what happens now.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I did things a bit differently...

Renegade Femshep, no romancing, Legion, Samara and the entire Normandy crew dead. I have a save ready to go back and save them, but I duno if I want to; this way I have to live with the consequences.

I'm not sure how they're going to do things in ME3 though, having Earth invaded right from the start and then leaving you to piss about all over the galaxy rallying every other race sounds wierd and would throw the pacing off. And anyway weren't the Reapers supposed to take a looooong time to reach the galaxy from dark space; hence why they needed the Citadel relay in the first game to get back?

And I don't see Cerberus turning against you, I made it pretty clear to TIM that I'm running the show now and he's been relegated to giving me info, not orders.

It'll be interesting to see how they do the next game though.

[Arhra]

Legion romance option.

Make it so, Bioware!

[Toast]

Originally Posted by Bells

So, i ended up romancing Tali. It was teh easiest Conversation tree ever, the girl was pratically tossing herself at me! The game makes it quite clear that Tali is your Paragon romance... Miranda and Jack... i'm kinda mixed about it. One of the mis your "Neutral" or "Mixed" Romance, and the other is your Renegade romance. Not sure about which one is which if you look ahead... All the other seem like Flavor text to me...

If you're making renegade choices, the romances tend not to end well. Also, I never really saw the choices as being tied to a particular alignment in a more abstract way. Especially for a female Shepard who has the choice between Jacob, Thane, and Garrus.

Now, ME3 is the last one, and they seem to be making the transfer from ME2 into a much bigger deal than it was in ME1... still early to see how that plays out, but there are some obvious things...

Let's hope so.

I mean, it's clear Cerberus is evil, or at least misguided. They will turn on you, you will fight them. Shepard is heading to Earth and my Bet is that Cerberus gets there first and turns the people Agaisnt Shepard with propaganda, calling him an Alien Synpathizer.... not a stretch considering all the aliens he Sympathize with...

That's an interesting idea, I hadn't thought of that. I'm really hoping that we get the opportunity to track down and confront Cerberus in me3.

The game is likely to have you Collecting allies in the Galaxy and then heading for earth where you'll probably jump around from major city to major city. London and New York are almost certain. You can bet tehre will be a "Jungle Level" and a "Snow Level" and a Desert one on earth... so i'm betting South America, Russia and Africa for that.

I seriously hope not. Not only do I want me3 to not be an ally fetch quest like Dragon Age, we already kind of went there in me2, just on a smaller scale. I also really hope that there's more to the plot than just saving earth. The last reaper invasion took more than a hundred years, I hope we have the chance to fight them on many of the major inhabited worlds.

On your current team, i wouldn't be surprised if some died. New teammates need to join, afterall... My guess is with Mordin and Thane going out first. Than is already dying (and that loose end never gets tied on ME2) and Mordin has solved all his issues. Or maybe he just won't be on the field anymore...

That's a possibility. I don't think Kasumi and Zaeed will be returning. I also agree that Mordin may not return. He is getting old for a salarian. It would suck, though, as he was the best new character in me2.

It might be just a hunch, but i would give Legion more exposion on the next game, i just think there is something to the fact that he holded on to Shepard's old armor.

I certainly hope so. Legion does have more to say about the geth in general after the suicide mission. At least, I've only been able to get him to say it after, but he doesn't say anything else about the armor.

Considering that EDI is now "On Shepard's Side" and at the same time, She has become the Normandy.. i would Suggest that Cerberus tries to reclaim your Ship by remotely controlling her (maybe that would be the point where Miranda Betrays shepard), and that Joker manages to make EDI break free from Cerberus entirely, giving you your ship back.

EDI was the weakest possible storytelling device they could have chosen, in my opinion. It was quite clear every time Shepard came across a situation that only EDI could resolve and I think that's poor storytelling. Kind of hoping that we get the opportunity to disconnect her so we can get the Normandy back. Unfortunately, I think we're stuck with her no matter what.

To elaborate on what I said before, I really hope that fighting the reapers is not limited to earth or the final mission of the game. I want to fight the reapers every step of the way, winning some battles, losing some planets.

I think the citadel would still be a major objective for the reapers, so I hope there's a significant amount of story there.

I'd also like some more variety in my enemies. In me2, there were no snipers, the only biotic power used (except by Tela Vasir) was warp. The only tech powers used were drone, incinerate, and tech armor.

I'd like one of those mercenary gunships, or something like it, for my planetary exploration vehicle. Both the mako and the hammerhead are too limited, why aren't we flying around these planets?

I'd like for there to be a mix of open explorable planets like me1 and straightforward planets like me2.

I'd like for the squadmates that you don't take with you to do more than stand around on the ship. I think you should be able to choose a specialist squad that has an effect on your mission. Who you choose determines what kind of effect that is. If Garrus is that squad leader, he sets up a sniper post and helps take down baddies. If Tali, she finds a way to hack their generators so it emits a pulse that drains their shields. Something like that.

I'd like for there to be more choices during armor customization. I'd also like for stats to be divorced from appearance. That is, for each armor piece to have a slot that can be upgraded with the same kind of bonuses that are already present in me2. There's no reason to bring back the tangled mess that was the me1 inventory.

Similarly, I hope weapons remain differentiated like in me2, but also hope they have an upgrade slot so that ammo types are no longer powers (did that ever make sense?) and they can come up with some more interesting powers for the classes.

What I'd also like to see, although it would probably never happen, is some class customization. Say I choose infiltrator. That would mean I get access to the infiltrator cloak and passive skill line, but my remaining 2-3 skills could be chosen by me from a pool of combat and tech skills. Pure classes like adept, engineer, and soldier wouldn't be able to access other skill types, but would have maybe 4 skills to choose.

[Melfice]

Regarding Miranda betraying you... I doubt it.
If you do her loyalty mission, you'll find out that when she gives out her trust, she's loyal to the end. This may cause a conflict with her, since she's very grateful to the Illusive Man, but outright betrayal I don't think she'll do.

Also, take her with you during the final mission (Paragon, destroy the base).
TIM: "Miranda, do no let Shepard destroy the base."
Miranda: "Or what? You'll replace me next?"
TIM: "I gave you an order, Miranda."
Miranda: "I noticed. Consider this my resignation."
TIM: "Shepard, think about what's at stake, about everything Cerberus has done for you! You---"
Miranda: [not seen] *smug face*

[Bells]

Regarding Miranda betraying you... I doubt it.
If you do her loyalty mission, you'll find out that when she gives out her trust, she's loyal to the end. This may cause a conflict with her, since she's very grateful to the Illusive Man, but outright betrayal I don't think she'll do.

I thought the same thing, but the gameplay itself took me in another direction. Cause i did Miranda's Loyalty mission, and then i did Jack's. That triggers their fight, and the only thing that made sense to me was to side with Jack, so i lost Miranda's Loyalty. Even though i pushed hard to get full paragon after that, i never got around to win her back. In the suicide mission, she didn't die, but i was with Samara and Tali all the time (or Tali and Legion, because my Sheppard is an Engineer and having 3 Drones in the field at the same time is fun and a LOT of help).

I just feel like the game is trying ot Emotionally bait you... i don't think Kelly is two faced, she likes Sheppard way too much (or is it a mask?) But i could see TIM finding a way to bend miranda over... Still, the game has a lot of ground for interpretation depending on how you play

to me the give away tha game tosses at you is that, the more you help Cerberus, the more Renegade points you get. There is a strong Paralel in helping Cerberus and all the violent and "evil" choices Sheppard can make. They are connected via the Renegade points... and it makes me ask "Renegade Against Whom?" i mean, the only major Players are Sheppard and Cerberus, everyone else is coming in from the sides.... so since i knew that ME3 was about earth, and how TIM wants Humanity to be above all... i just took Renegade as being "Renegade to Humanity". As in, i would see Cerberus wanting to dominate the galaxy via sheer force and manipulation.

Also, funny thing... you noticed how all sidequests are unique in their own way? My bet is that they are tied to ME3... you have the Missile one where you pick which place surives and which one does not. There is another way where you get a bunch of Secret documents about Cerberus and you can hand them over or keep it to yourself... and others, regarding saving planets and analyzing Shiwreck....

Also, there is a part of Tali's story that never gets explained.. the one about the Sun that is aging way too fast.

All choices connected to those are going into ME3, i would be.

I'd like for there to be more choices during armor customization.

YES. Please i really need this. The game felt so very empty in that regard... half the armor you could get was Promotional stuff!! I had to make due with Changing the color of everything from mission to mission...

[Solid Snake]

Man I think it would be awesome if Bioware threw an epic twist our way and had the mission to save Earth be the very first mission in the game. Like, Earth is struggling to hold off the Reapers, and then all the sudden the Normandy shows up, with a shitload of allies corresponding roughly with the kinds your Shepard was friendly with throughout ME2, and you're just sent straight into the action, and your entire ME2 cast leads separate Squads in different areas of Earth.

...I actually remember typing a similar message with a similar concept long before that ME3 trailer came out.

Let me see if I can dig it up.

EDIT: From 2/22/2010:

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

I was thinking about my "dream version" of ME3 and I came to the conclusion that I'd enjoy a cold open with Shepard defending a devastated Earth from a reaper attack, and with several alien factions (if you're paragon) or Cerberus (if you're renegade) assisting Shepard in defending other human cities. I'm not sure whether even a relatively brief jaunt on future-Earth would serve the Mass Effect "setting" (even though Earth clearly exists, and it's a clear first choice for a Reaper target assuming they know Shepard's species.) It'd be an intriguing way to immediately thrust the player into heavy-stakes action and a great way to immediately re-introduce tons of supporting characters who survived ME1 and ME2, though not as squadmates: if you played paragon, you could hear radio chatter about Clan Urdnot showing up and defending Beijing while a Geth task force led by Legion defended Cairo and Salarian special task forces were staving off the enemy in Paris while Ashley/Kaiden and Alliance forces were protecting the United Nations building in New York. The payoff of actually seeing the alien races you've helped assisting humanity would be freakin' sweet, and the intensity of listening to the radio chatter from tons of forces battling all throughout the planet we know and love would match the kind of intensity we saw in the microwave scene in MGS4.

And I'd actually prefer if the game skipped ahead and started there, with an initial Reaper invasion of Earth or something as the first target. You'd immediately be confronted with tough choices -- if you have squadmates from ME1 and ME2 who survived the suicide mission, one idea is you'd have to choose via radio communication (as Shepard would be the leader of the entire operation) whether to have some squadmates sacrifice themselves to destroy invading forces. Do you sacrifice their lives to protect cities and nations on Earth, or do you keep as many former squadmates and alien forces alive as possible, while potentially sacrificing Earth's habitability and turning humanity into a spacefaring race separated from a destroyed homeworld, like the Quarians?

(And how many characters survived the suicide mission could influence your available options, too. Entire cities that could be battlegrounds if some characters are kept alive could be sacrificed to the Reaper invasion if those characters were dead. Example: if Wrex survived ME1 he's alive and Clan Urdnot shows up with a Krogan task force to defend Beijing. If not, a Reaper succeeds in destroying Beijing and there's nothing you can do about it, at least one major city on Earth is out of the picture.)

And then you can get the Normandy 3 (Normandy 2 would be destroyed while attacking the invading Reaper at Earth or something) and the game would actually begin...

[Kerensky287]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Man I think it would be awesome if Bioware threw an epic twist our way and had the mission to save Earth be the very first mission in the game. Like, Earth is struggling to hold off the Reapers, and then all the sudden the Normandy shows up, with a shitload of allies corresponding roughly with the kinds your Shepard was friendly with throughout ME2, and you're just sent straight into the action, and your entire ME2 cast leads separate Squads in different areas of Earth.

So exactly like Halo 2?

Which ended up being really disappointing because Earth has to be the climax, and everything inevitably ends up being downhill from there?

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Kerensky287

So exactly like Halo 2?

Which ended up being really disappointing because Earth has to be the climax, and everything inevitably ends up being downhill from there?

I've never played Halo 2, so I wouldn't know.

However, I think the alternative issue presented by "leaving Earth for last" is Dragon Age: Origins syndrome. You'll spend the game going to various factions, requesting aid, choosing between factions to enlist for the battle in Earth, etc. That sounds far more boring, standard, and cliche-ridden to me.

We could have a prologue that dealt with repelling an initial force of Reapers on Earth, then have the rest of the game concentrate on Shepard finding ways to prevent the main Reaper contingency from obliterating the galaxy.

[Bells]

Well... mass effect 1 and 2 were pretty much "Gather these people ebfore the final suicide mission". More so on ME2, where that was pretty much the plot point... i don't think they will repeat a plot so clearly like that, specially since they showed that they can listen to their fanbase and improved a lot from ME1 to ME2...

If i were to bet, they just might take a page of Oblivion's book and have it be done "close the gates" style. As in, in the mid point you reach earth (which was pretty easy to reach on ME2 anyways...) and from that point on, you hop from space to earth gathering resources and freeing the major cities...

Probably Breaking into Earth's galaxy will be a mission on it's own