Presidential Debate 3: The Sacred Stones - Page 2

Kurosen · 10-15-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

$250,000 would have taxes increased. But almost 90% of the small businesses in the U.S. make more than that.

Good thing they've got so much money so they can afford a trivial tax increase with ease.

Lord Setheris · 10-15-2008, 09:43 PM

Damn. For the first several minutes McCain seemed pissed. He was a ruthless attacker.

That was actually very entertaining.

Ryanderman · 10-15-2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurosen

Good thing they've got so much money so they can afford a trivial tax increase with ease.

Except that they're already using that money on even more trivial things, like paying their employees.

Kurosen · 10-15-2008, 09:58 PM

Then I'm sure the decrease in the amount they'll have to pay for their employees' health insurance will be welcomed. Maybe it's because I am a small business owner who can't afford health insurance, like every other small business owner I have ever known or met, but I'm not too worried about the finances of companies bringing in over a quarter of a million dollars annually.

bluestarultor · 10-15-2008, 10:17 PM

You want to know the great thing? If 90% of all small business owners bring in a quarter million or more, 90% of small business owners make 5 times the income of my household, which is supported by my single, working mom, who has been in nursing for over 30 years. We live in a comfortable Ranch-style home in a nice suburb with a big yard, own 2 cats, 2 cars, an electric tricycle, and have enough money for both my brother and I to go to post-secondary school locally. We don't have to worry about money for medicine, heat, water, taxes, gas for the cars, food, or electricity, are the proud owners of THREE laptop computers (four if you count my broken eMachines) and wireless DSL, have just procured a PSP, previously bought a PS3, PS2, DS Lite, and GBA in reverse order, and have enough video games for all of it to keep life interesting.

Now take a lifestyle that is by all means comfortable and multiply it by five. Cry to me about taxes being raised a little for that.

Mike McC · 10-15-2008, 10:21 PM

I think the best moment in the debate came from the whole "Joe the Plumber" section. Where Obama clearly surprised McCain and threw him off balance a bit.

In the end, Obama carried himself much better. McCain came off as pretty erratic at times. I think Obama handled the Ayers attack very well.

BitVyper · 10-15-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

But almost 90% of the small businesses in the U.S. make more than that. He also didn't specify net or gross, or if it included inventory.

I don't mean to be nitpicky, but can I get a citation on that? 'Cause to the best of my knowledge, most small businesses struggle to be profitable at all. And even when/if they get over that hump they're still a ways off from using thousand dollar bills to light cigars. Most, if I'm not mistaken, don't make it over that particular hump at all. Increased taxes on businesses that are still working on breaking even wouldn't really help that matter. The ones that are up in the six digit range can afford it.

Edit:

Sorry, I see you were talking gross, but the same argument still stands. There's a lot of small businesses that aren't operating on anything near that scale. I'd just like to know where your statistic comes from, is all. Nearly every shmoe who runs an Ebay store falls into this category.

Ryanderman · 10-15-2008, 10:26 PM

When it is that a small business owner makes more than $250,000, it doesn't mean they take that money home to spend as they want. It means their business makes that much, and then has to spend a large portion of it on utilities, employees wages, and such. The owner actually takes home very little of that $250,000. But because of the way the US tax system is set up, for a sole proprietorship, the business's income is counted directly as the owner's income.

So small business owners making $250,000 aren't living lavish lifestyles necessarily. Many, if not most, are still struggling to make ends meet. Adding an additional tax burden because they're "rich" only makes it more difficult to get by.

BitVyper · 10-15-2008, 10:31 PM

I addressed that in my edit. My mistake for not reading closely enough. However there are a lot of small businesses out there that are really small. Now, quite a few of them are already evading taxes by flying under the radar, but that's another matter entirely. Like I said in my edit; every shmoe who runs an Ebay store.

Chipper173 · 10-16-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike McC

surprised McCain and threw him off balance a bit.

I came here to post this, it's so classic. "Zero?!" and then he tries to find something to say but can't, like "aw shit, can't come back from this".

Also,

10-15-2008, 09:43 PM	#12
Lord Setheris A Guardian Angel Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,311	Damn. For the first several minutes McCain seemed pissed. He was a ruthless attacker. That was actually very entertaining. __________________ As a 21 year old virgin, I'm strongly opposed to anything that reminds me that people are having sex in high school.

10-15-2008, 10:21 PM	#16
Mike McC Time is something else. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Wherever I am needed, I will be there. Posts: 5,065	I think the best moment in the debate came from the whole "Joe the Plumber" section. Where Obama clearly surprised McCain and threw him off balance a bit. In the end, Obama carried himself much better. McCain came off as pretty erratic at times. I think Obama handled the Ayers attack very well. __________________ WHERE MIKEY IS IN 2022! tumblrs - http://werewolf.zone twitters - @itmightbemikey

10-15-2008, 10:26 PM	#18
Ryanderman Beard of Leadership Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 827	When it is that a small business owner makes more than $250,000, it doesn't mean they take that money home to spend as they want. It means their business makes that much, and then has to spend a large portion of it on utilities, employees wages, and such. The owner actually takes home very little of that $250,000. But because of the way the US tax system is set up, for a sole proprietorship, the business's income is counted directly as the owner's income. So small business owners making $250,000 aren't living lavish lifestyles necessarily. Many, if not most, are still struggling to make ends meet. Adding an additional tax burden because they're "rich" only makes it more difficult to get by. __________________ ~Your robot reminds me of you. You tell it to stop, it turns. You tell it to turn, it stops. You tell it to take out the trash, it watches reruns of Firefly.~ Last edited by Ryanderman; 10-15-2008 at 10:40 PM.

10-15-2008, 10:31 PM	#19
BitVyper History's Strongest Dilettante Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Arcadia Posts: 6,662	I addressed that in my edit. My mistake for not reading closely enough. However there are a lot of small businesses out there that are really small. Now, quite a few of them are already evading taxes by flying under the radar, but that's another matter entirely. Like I said in my edit; every shmoe who runs an Ebay store. __________________ "There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea is asleep, and the rivers dream. People made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace; we've got work to do!" Awesome art be here.