D&D advice

[Bells]

Originally Posted by Aldurin

Random indiscriminate murder and theft would be a good start.

That's not necessarily Evil... it's just being a prick in a murderous way really.

Being Evil really depends on the campaing too... i mean, you could torture people for informations that are interesting to your group's quest, and not let your fellow team members know of the stuff you do behind the scenes to get them riches and info... that's also quite evil.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by Krylo

Pah. That's all pointless chaotic evil stuff.

You're on the right track, but you're not finishing anything out proper.

For instance: Why just stand back when the power vacuum rolls in and causes infighting? Why not wait until each army has weakened themselves, and then use your fame as the slayer of the despot to raise your own army, join an alliance with some of the weaker factions, and then turn on them once all the credible threats have been dealt with?

If you're going to free the slaves and have them revolt, why merely watch? Why not use the revolt as a cover for something else, whether stealing a priceless artifact or assassinating the ruler of the slave owning kingdom so you can take over?

If you're going to feed the princess a love potion, why not make her fall in love with you, marry her, and then assassinate the king, ascend to the throne, and then kill her after the fact if she's not your type?

Being 'evil' is just a means to an end. With no end it's pointless and cliched.

Well, he was already chaotic, so I figured he'd just stick with that. Besides, we're trying to ease him into this.

Also, I don't know how his DM operates, so I don't know if he could even get away with that much if whoever it is isn't up to properly accommodating him.

[tacticslion]

...especially if you're going to make it again in a few rounds anyway!

As to Walker's query:
Evil is really two-fold thing - it comes either from application or intent.

Although it's difficult to for some of us* (me) to be evil* (ex: "Look, I know I'm a chaotic evil murderous Antipaladin who hates all life, I just don't see why I shouldn't give that poor widow the 5k gold we just earned - after all, it was our negligence, as you described it, that to her husbands untimely demise - though I admit it could have been from natural causes - and so it only seems fair that she get enough to take care of her in her old age! What? Why are you looking at me like that? Oh, right... your look obviously means I should also not forget that I could sell some of my rare equipment to help those orphans whose house was burned down in a lightning storm! Oh, look, a drowning puppy to save! Hey, you guys, while we're at it, let's go stop that evil dragon from terrorizing..." etc. Hey! Don't judge me! My lawful good characters... aren't always! Shut up!), but it really depends on what your GM considers "evil". Desire, Killing, even Jealousy - these things are not inherently evil. Desire turning to evil lust or gluttonous greed is. Or, if that desire is acted upon in such a way as to bring about unmerited destruction to "innocent" bystanders. Killing isn't evil - self defense is justified. Murder (the methodical planning of killing a creature outside of self-defense, war, and food-supply) is, in most moral codes. Jealousy - the desire to keep what belongs to you alone - isn't inherently evil. A refusal to share needed resources with "good" people, or envy of someone else's stuff is.

As Bells said, MOST people don't think of themselves as evil. They think of themselves, at worst, as neutral. Even when horrendous acts are committed, they are "justified" somehow. Evil people saying "man, that's evil, I'mma go do that" are just (criminally) insane, and usually don't last long. Further, even evil people have emotions and are, at heart, people. They might even have that special someone they care about... and might prove it by offering a worthy sacrifice of, say, a hundred slaves (taken from the nearby villaiges and properly "adjusted" with mind-altering magic). Some might think that "evil" is just a bunch of bunk - nothing at all. Others, like Kore from Goblins* (he's a great example of that, really, especially here) actually believe that they are good and are doing good, even as their evil is hidden from their own eyes.

The short version - if you think it can at all be used to your advantage - look like a "good-guy". Sure, give the poor widow money - so long as people are around to watch you. Meanwhile, do whatever you can to harm others while enriching or pleasing yourself. Even later sneaking into that widow's home and stealing it back. Alternatively, if you think you can find a way to justify the murder of many non-evil creatures ("why, humans are a plague - a blight on the world; I'm just making the world a better place, can't you see?"* [the elven group called the Eldath Valuthra feel this way, thinking of themselves as secret heroes, even as they murder innocents]) to yourself, hey, there you go: easy evil.

And Krylo, Krylo, Krylo: I'm disappointed in you. Why kill her? Why not use various mental magics to completely alter her personality and transformative magics to change her physically so that she becomes your type? That's the first response! The murder only comes after everyone truly thinks that you are their worthy and benevolent king - so that no pretenders to your throne could possibly ever challenge you. See, you do so much "charity" work... and, you know, it's a shame about those assassins that keep popping up...

Really this is kind of rehashing old ground, but what I'd like to hear is the kind of things you tried, while your GM said "not evil enough". That'd give us a good place to start.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by tacticslion

...especially if you're going to make it again in a few rounds anyway!

It is if you don't evacuate first, and murder every single man woman and child on the plane in the process!

And Krylo, Krylo, Krylo: I'm disappointed in you. Why kill her? Why not use various mental magics to completely alter her personality and transformative magics to change her physically so that she becomes your type? That's the first response! The murder only comes after everyone truly thinks that you are their worthy and benevolent king - so that no pretenders to your throne could possibly ever challenge you. See, you do so much "charity" work... and, you know, it's a shame about those assassins that keep popping up...

Because that is a lot of effort and resources to waste on one bitch when I'm an evil motherfucker with an entire kingdom to choose from and no compunctions about killing people.

And fuck all this public work shit. A fair but iron hand. Raise up the poor, murder the rich, cultivate loyalty through education and training, and rigorous mental readjustment programs in the mandatory military training that all men serve so as to instill in them work ethic and values... and the ability to kill in my name. And are well paid for.

Don't need none of that fake benevolence. Just need some good ole demagoguery.

[EVILNess]

Yeah, sorry can't help you with being evil.

All my characters are driving forces of healthy change and new leadership in a stagnant and corrupt monarchy, who are all loved unconditionally by their people.

[tacticslion]

Originally Posted by Krylo

It is if you don't evacuate first, and murder every single man woman and child on the plane in the process!

Mass Rez, dude! They'll be fine! OR they'll be in their eternal reward! So, you know, it's all cool!

Originally Posted by Krylo

Because that is a lot of effort and resources to waste on one bitch when I'm an evil motherfucker with an entire kingdom to choose from and no compunctions about killing people.

Bah, the point is if it's really her, there's nothing anyone can do, legally, against you. No revolts can be made in her name, no martyr for some crusading do-gooder to rally behind, nothing but pure, unadulterated legal right to be there. Sure, it's work, but it's all up-front. Heck, really trick her out, and get whatever you want with her still there. So long as it's legal. Even a chaotic evil person can appreciate the benefit of having the law work for you. Obviously you don't respect the law, but those sucker-paladins sure will. You pity da' foo's.

Originally Posted by Krylo

And fuck all this public work shit. A fair but iron hand. Raise up the poor, murder the rich, cultivate loyalty through education and training, and rigorous mental readjustment programs in the mandatory military training that all men serve so as to instill in them work ethic and values... and the ability to kill in my name. And are well paid for.

Okay, yes, I grant the fair-but-iron hand. But seriously, if you're going to the trouble of re-educating a society like that, you might as well throw the (now willing) princess through the mind-grinder while you're at it, right?

Originally Posted by Krylo

Don't need none of that fake benevolence. Just need some good ole demagoguery.

True. True.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by tacticslion

Okay, yes, I grant the fair-but-iron hand. But seriously, if you're going to the trouble of re-educating a society like that, you might as well throw the (now willing) princess through the mind-grinder while you're at it, right?

I don't think Boot Camp works for lovers.

Edit: And she'd have to be poor for the whole "Hey look, you get food on your plate" to work.

And really, I think I'd rather just find someone who's already wired proper in the first place. The whole mind control thing NEVER works out in the end. They always regain their free will and stab you in the back or something.

[Aldurin]

You want evil, I'll give you evil.

Genetically modified Creepers that are 99.999% transparent. Oh and they fly too.

[tacticslion]

Originally Posted by Krylo

The whole mind control thing NEVER works out in the end. They always regain their free will and stab you in the back or something.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Have you never heard of "hypnotism"? Permanent two steps more friendly to any suggestion. It's not a curse. It's not even detectable. It just is.

Oh, wait, it's a random HD: maximize. Oh, wait, they're higher than 8th level: Empower. Cheap as sin, and soooooooooooooo easy to use. Not a caster? Get someone to make you Eyes of Hypnotism. Forget Charming, Hyps where it's at! I mean, yeah, I see you're point, but still. ALTernatively - helm of opposite alignment. Or, heck, while they're charmed, work them over diplomatically into accepting an atonement.

Really, if the GM protests - especially if you're working in a pre-published setting like Faerun - simply pull the published stuff: shield dwarves who've been charmed so long they actually believe that the illithid deity (and working with grimlocks) is their only means to salvation, as but one example.

And boot-camp works perfectly for lovers! Also, if she's already perma-charmed (say, by a Phylter of Love, which I was presuming was fed to her long ago, back with the orcs or whatever), than she'll willingly "volunteer" (with the right hints) to be the first to go through the program to prove it's worth to her loyal subjects!

I get your point, though. In my back. Repeatedly. Ow.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Aldurin

You want evil, I'll give you evil.

Genetically modified Creepers that are 99.999% transparent. Oh and they fly too.

... Creepers? I lament my lack of nerd-fu!
That does sound kind of evil, though!

[Aldurin]

Given this thread I hope the lawyers of this forum are defense attorneys, since it seems near impossible to pass off as truly evil to you guys.