Damsel in Distress... Women in games - Page 2

Jagos · 03-11-2013, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimpond

hahahaha what. Seriously?

I don't always agree with Anita's work. She tends to try to object from a scholarly POV which makes me skeptical of some of her claims. Call it my bias factor. She may have a point but sometimes, I don't come to the same conclusion.

Krylo · 03-11-2013, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagos

I mean for crying out loud, Sheikh is Zelda and we should just look at her as a damsel?

I'm just going to laugh for five minutes straight here.

. . .

. . .

. . .

Okay, that out of the way, what happens to Sheikh as soon as 'he' reveals that 'he' is actually Princess Zelda in disguise?

Or more succinctly, what happens as soon as Sheikh's masculine aspects are replaced with feminine ones?

I ask the same of Tetra in Wind Waker.

Kim · 03-11-2013, 12:39 AM

You are being willfully ignorant.

Exceptions to a rule do not disprove a rule. They are exceptions. Often, there are major problems with those exceptions as well. Look at Other M and what it did to Samus, your Strong Female Character, who was ultimately reduced to the only overt uses of her gender in every game previous Other M to make her a swimsuit model and reward for the player to oggle if they did well.

You fucking bring up POISON and that's just fucking insulting.

What about the new Lara Croft game where the violence against Lara was sexualized in promotional videos.

Your exceptions are exceptions, BUT THEY DON'T DISPROVE THE RULE and they're still wildly fucked up. When discussing a trend, you don't need to bring up every counterexample, because counterexamples don't disprove a trend. At best, you're distracting from your main point to make a concession.

BUT HERE'S WHAT REALLY UPSETS ME. You said an article about a video was valid without even watching the video to check. You decided you were against her from the very beginning without even trying to see if she made her point well. You decided that a woman calling out the most basic, obvious sexism in games could never be right, and it's because you're a fucking sexist.

POS Industries · 03-11-2013, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagos

She tends to try to object from a scholarly POV which makes me skeptical of some of her claims.

Hahaha what?

"She tends to sound intelligent and educated and I don't trust that shit for a second."

Grimpond · 03-11-2013, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagos

I don't always agree with Anita's work. She tends to try to object from a scholarly POV which makes me skeptical of some of her claims. Call it my bias factor. She may have a point but sometimes, I don't come to the same conclusion.

The problem is that you are biasing your view of her based on some poor argument on a video you haven't watched by your own words. That is unbelivably unfair and really ass backwards

edit: grammarz

EDIT EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS Industries

Hahaha what?

"She tends to sound intelligent and educated and I don't trust that shit for a second."

jesus, I didn't even catch that. How the hell does....I mean, how?

How is that even a thing you can say

Fifthfiend · 03-11-2013, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagos

I don't always agree with Anita's work. She tends to try to object from a scholarly POV which makes me skeptical of some of her claims.

I love how nerds are all about videogames being art until someone goes and treats them like art.

Krylo · 03-11-2013, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kim

What about the new Lara Croft game where the violence against Lara was sexualized in promotional videos.

It was yeah, but in the game it's not really, and Lara is just a fantastic character and it's a fantastic game. Decided to give it a chance after it got pretty much 100% positive reviews.

Not saying this to detract from your point or argue or whatever, I'm just saying you should give the game a try. Like rent it from somewhere or something if you don't trust me--which maybe you shouldn't because I have more trouble seeing/more tolerance for things that might bother you.

Also maybe because it's super short. Like, I played a bit after beating the game collecting stuff and still only have 15 hours logged.

Jagos · 03-11-2013, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimpond

The problem is that you are biasing your view of her based on some poor argument on a video you haven't watched by your own words. That is unbelivably unfair and really ass backwards

edit: grammarz

It's me acknowledging that sometimes I don't agree with her. Ex. I liked her work on the Hunger Games, where she explains how Katniss digressed as a character but some of her earlier works seemed open to criticism.

And I do plan to watch this video and possibly see what exactly she is saying. I just can't do it this late at night.

@Fifth I was never a big fan of that argument personally. I just play the games and discuss them but I doubt if I come to the exact same conclusions as others.

Kim · 03-11-2013, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krylo

It was yeah, but in the game it's not really, and Lara is just a fantastic character and it's a fantastic game. Decided to give it a chance after it got pretty much 100% positive reviews.

Not saying this to detract from your point or argue or whatever, I'm just saying you should give the game a try. Like rent it from somewhere or something if you don't trust me--which maybe you shouldn't because I have more trouble seeing/more tolerance for things that might bother you.

Also maybe because it's super short. Like, I played a bit after beating the game collecting stuff and still only have 15 hours logged.

I'll take it under advisement, but I got higher priority stuff in my gaming list.

CABAL49 · 03-11-2013, 12:57 AM

Video games are shit when it comes to portrayal of women. I mean, we can go down the list and cherry pick a few good female characters, but we can do that to Asians, blacks, Hispanics and other groups that are not WASP, but in the end we still end up with the same result. That the overall depiction of minorities and women are shitty in video games. Especially if you are a woman and a minority.

But gamers seem to think that they are being targeted unfairly when it comes to the depiction of women. No there are many ways of pointing out the flaws in this delusion. Miss Sarkeesian does that well, and while I have not watched all of her videos, from what I have seen she does a good job at Feminism 101 so I recommend her videos. But I will say that gaming culture's delusions of persecution is certainly unique. Not that other sub-culture doesn't have the same delusions. But problem isn't so much gaming as it is culture in general.

But that is partly one of the few things the article writer doesn't seem to get.

Edit: And lazy writing is no excuse for being sexist.

03-11-2013, 12:39 AM	#13
Kim adorable Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12,950	You are being willfully ignorant. Exceptions to a rule do not disprove a rule. They are exceptions. Often, there are major problems with those exceptions as well. Look at Other M and what it did to Samus, your Strong Female Character, who was ultimately reduced to the only overt uses of her gender in every game previous Other M to make her a swimsuit model and reward for the player to oggle if they did well. You fucking bring up POISON and that's just fucking insulting. What about the new Lara Croft game where the violence against Lara was sexualized in promotional videos. Your exceptions are exceptions, BUT THEY DON'T DISPROVE THE RULE and they're still wildly fucked up. When discussing a trend, you don't need to bring up every counterexample, because counterexamples don't disprove a trend. At best, you're distracting from your main point to make a concession. BUT HERE'S WHAT REALLY UPSETS ME. You said an article about a video was valid without even watching the video to check. You decided you were against her from the very beginning without even trying to see if she made her point well. You decided that a woman calling out the most basic, obvious sexism in games could never be right, and it's because you're a fucking sexist. __________________ this post is about how to successfully H the Kimmy

03-11-2013, 12:57 AM	#20
CABAL49 Not bad. Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Senatus Populusque Americanus Posts: 1,584	Video games are shit when it comes to portrayal of women. I mean, we can go down the list and cherry pick a few good female characters, but we can do that to Asians, blacks, Hispanics and other groups that are not WASP, but in the end we still end up with the same result. That the overall depiction of minorities and women are shitty in video games. Especially if you are a woman and a minority. But gamers seem to think that they are being targeted unfairly when it comes to the depiction of women. No there are many ways of pointing out the flaws in this delusion. Miss Sarkeesian does that well, and while I have not watched all of her videos, from what I have seen she does a good job at Feminism 101 so I recommend her videos. But I will say that gaming culture's delusions of persecution is certainly unique. Not that other sub-culture doesn't have the same delusions. But problem isn't so much gaming as it is culture in general. But that is partly one of the few things the article writer doesn't seem to get. Edit: And lazy writing is no excuse for being sexist. Last edited by CABAL49; 03-11-2013 at 01:03 AM.