Don't you people ever die?! A DMing thread

[tacticslion]

Going (psuedo)emo, or 'I don't have teh m0n13z!'

Originally Posted by Terex4

We use a grid mat for our games. ... a wet erase marker ...

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

Got colored dice? You can color code your status defects with them and use the numbers to remind yourself of the save.

See, I love both of these ideas, but the one problem I have is: finances. $50 a week (after basic expenses) isn't really that much to go on, you see - especially for those remarkably expensive dice.

One idea (again based on the computer) is: when you are using various source-books, compile a kind of note-book for the basic rules your campaign is allowing/using right now - essentially re-write a few charts, growth rates, etc for the various characters you're using. Especially grab the stuff that you know you don't know and is likely to come up. That way if you have a rules question, you have an easy made-by-you (and thus intimately known-by-you) document you can pull up and answer things far more quickly than flipping through most books. Plus you've got a search function! That also allows you to ignore most of the issues with the game you're playing, and only reference the books when there's something very obscure or rare going on (which is usually temporarily adjucated anyway, in my experience). Edit: this allows you to (usually) not have to carry all of the books with you, especially if you meet in a location that's not someone's home.

Here's a pointlessly long explanation for how to keep track of character levels (player and NPC) in 4EAnother method I have for following a character's power/rules, specifically for 4E, is to make a level chart for each character. The way I set up the chart chart, across the top, includes: "Level", "Powers and Feats" (the largest section, leave plenty of room here), and "Hit Points and Surges (max/bloodied, value/#). Above the last category (HP, etc) I write the amount of hit points they gain each level, half that number, one quarter that number, and "-same-" - this lets me know how much hit points that character will have at any given level. Beneath "Level", I've got their level (obviously), beneath their powers and feats I have several lines (at will, encounter, daily, utility, feat - going down a line, in that order, each listed only where they would get one) next to the level, and (their current maximum hit point total/their current maximum bloodied value, their current healing surge value/their current healing surges per day) at a given level. I start with first and fill in the blanks (as much as I know) all the way up to level 10. Copy/past the chart, add a few spaces (above or below) for paragon specials, and do the same for epic specials.

Here (I hope) is a clear example of what I was talking about:
The chart I was explaining above (sort of)! The dots are normally replaced by "tab" spaces so everythings more even, but what'cha'gonna'do?
.......This is a sometimes PC in a game I ran - a dwarf fighter named Baz........
HEROIC TIER.............................................. ...........+6/+3, +1.5/-same-
Level......Powers and Feats........................................HP and Surges (max/bloodied, value/#)
1st.........At will: cleave, reaping strike.........................31/15, 7/12
.............Encounter: spinning sweep
.............Daily: brute strike
.............Feat: power attack
2nd........Utility: unstoppable......................................3 7/18, 9/12
.............Feat: dwarven weapon training
3rd.........Encounter: crushing blow..............................43/21, 10/12
4th.........Feat: weapon focus (axes)............................49/24, 12/12
.............Ability increase: +1 DEX and CHA
etc.

The stuff you write above or below the chart to let you follow the character's growth from their origin.Below the Heroic Tier Chart (you could put it above) I have information like this:
Baz has the following ability scores and class traits:
Role: defender................................Power Source: martial
Key Abilities: Strength, Dexterity, Wisdom, Constitution

Armor Proficiencies: cloth, leather, hide, chain mail, scale, light shield, heavy shield
Weapon proficiencies: simple and military
Bonus to defense: +2 fortitude

Hit points at first level: 15+CON score......Hit points per level gained: 6
Healing surges per day: 9+CON mod

Trained Skills: athletics, endurance, intimidate

Class Features:
Combat Challenge, Combat Superiority, Fighter Weapon Talent

Starting Scores (for increase-based purposes).............Current Scores (after increases)
STR 16 DEX 13 WIS 14............................................STR 17 DEX 14 WIS 14
CON 16 INT 10 CHA 11............................................CON 17 INT 10 CHA 12
(Any other notes, like background/regional benefits, non-combat skills, etc, go here)

Here's how I set up my paragon-path notes.I set my paragon stuff up like this, placing it below a nearly identical chart to what I posted above (copy/paste the first ten levels, change level number and hit point amounts, set up notes on paragon specials and powers instead of heroic ones):
Name of Paragon Path [Example: “Guardian of Spirit”]
(name of paragon path based on, if any; example: “kensai”)
Traits
Level 11 Action [Name; example: “Guardian’s Action”]
(name of special trait based on, if any. Example: “justicar’s action”)
When you spend an action point, you…
… Each enemy adjacent to you is weakened until the end of its next turn

Level 11 Special [Name; example: “Guardian’s Recovery”]
(name of special trait based on, if any. Example: “tough as nails”)
~ Each ally adjacent to you can reroll one saving throw at the end of his or her turn

Level 16 Special [Name; example: “Guardian’s Defense”]
(name of special trait based on, if any. Example: “just shelter”)
~ Allies adjacent to you are immune to fear and charm effects and receive a +1 bonus to saving throws

Powers
Level 11 Attack
POWER NAME
Flavor Text (describe what it looks like)
.............Encounter: Key Words (example: “martial, weapon”)
.............(Standard, Move, Minor) Action, (melee or ranged) [weapon]
.............{Requirement: if any. Example: “must have implement”
.............Target: specified target(s), if any (example: “one bloodied creature”)
.............Attack: SCORE v. defense (example: “DEX v reflex”)
.............Hit: Damage and effect that happens on hit. Example: “3W+DEX mod damage and you shift”
.............Effect: Description of the effect regardless of the hit or miss. Example: “You spend a healing surge”
.............Miss: what happens, if anything, on a miss. Example: “half damage and no shift”

Level 12 Utility
POWER NAME
Flavor Text (describe what it looks like)
.............(At Will, Encounter, Daily): Key Words (example: “martial, weapon”)
.............(Standard, Move, Minor, Immediate interrupt, etc), (Personal, Ranged X, Close Burst X, etc)
.............{Trigger: if any. Example: “you become immobilized, restrained, or slowed”}
.............{Special: if any. Example: “if you are granting combat advantage, you can’t use this power”}
.............Effect: the effect. Example: “you become invisible until the start of your next turn”

Level 20 Attack
POWER NAME
Flavor Text (describe what it looks like)
.............Daily: Key Words (example: “martial, weapon”)
.............(Standard, Move, or Minor), (melee or ranged X) [weapon]
.............{Requires: must be wielding a crossbow, a light blade, or a sling}
.............Target: specified target(s), if any (example: “one bloodied creature”)
.............Attack: SCORE v. defense (example: “DEX v reflex”)
.............Hit: Damage and effect that happens on hit. Example: “3W+DEX mod damage and you shift”
.............Effect: Description of the effect regardless of the hit or miss. Example: “You spend a healing surge”
.............Miss: what happens, if anything, on a miss. Example: “half damage and no shift”

EPIC! how I set it up.Finally, I put this below my Epic version of my heroic chart (as with the paragon chart, copy/paste the first ten levels, change level number and hit point amounts, set up notes on paragon specials and powers instead of heroic ones). This uses Epic Trickster to show you what it looks like after the generic stuff is removed/replaced.
.............Epic Trickster
EPIC Abilities
Level 21 Sly Fortune’s Favor
.............You have a knack for getting out of tough situations. Three times per day, as a free action, you can reroll a d20 roll (attack roll, skill check, ability check, or saving throw)

Level 24 Trickster’s Control
.............If you roll an 18 or higher on the d20 when making the first attack roll for an encounter or daily attack power, that power is not expended

Level 30 Trickster’s Disposition
.............Once per day, you can tell the DM to treat the result of a d20 roll he just made as a 1. No rerolls are possible.

EPIC Powers
Epic Trick, level 26
Flavor Text
Daily: Healing
Minor, personal
Effect: regain all your hit points and healing surges, automatically save agasint all effects on you, recover all expended encounter powers, or recover all expended daily powers except this one. Once you use this power, you cannot recover it except by taking an extended rest.

This method is nice, because I can instantly check my notes (and compare with the players') at any level of play. Too many or too little hit points? I can help them fix that. Forgot to give themselves a feat, or gave themselves one too many? Fixed. It really, really speeds up leveling up, and you can just put generic placeholders until they know which power or feat they want. Make the three charts (heroic, paragon, epic) up to level thirty (or, if you know you'll never get there, up to your highest possible level of play and perhaps a couple more to be safe) and you'll never have to worry about mistakes (players' or your own) as the entire history of a character is laid out before you. Further, once you've developed one, generic version of the chart, you can copy/paste it for the three different tiers, and then copy/paste that for each different character you want to work with. It's also neat because it allows you to design your own classes (if you want) and instantly compare them in power/balance (the basics, at least) compared to the normal classes. This works great for villains too.

Villain and NPC levelsSpeaking of villains, (and most NPCs) I always, always give the potentially recurring ones character classes. The DMG says not to do it, but, I mean, forget that noise. I treat 'em like characters (though I usually use the stats they start with in the MM or other pre-published adventure), and I set up charts exactly like these to do it. Further, I usually have it set up so that a villain is a threat for a good amount of time, but the characters can eventually even the odds. For example. If my first level heroes meet a 4th level enemy and take him down, that enemy grows as they do, but at a reduced rate. That enemy has a level equal to a fraction of the players'... plus four. So, for example, say I have a villianous berzerker (human, Monster Manual), and the characters defeat her, but she escapes. As she travels and gains power, her character level is defined as (2/3) the players' levels +4 (usually rounding up). So when they're 6th level, she'll be 8th. When their 9th level, she'll be 10th. When they're 12th level, she'll be... 12th as well. When they're 15th level, she'll only be 14th. It continues thusly. Eventually she becomes a non-threat to the characters, but it will take many levels. This gives the characters a sense of accomplishment as they eventually out-grow their old nemesis and a sense of versimilitude (the world doesn't revolve around them) as their enemy is growing in power too, when she's "off screen", but doesn't just magically gain an amount of power equal to them - her plots, schemes, and adventures just rewarded her less than theirs. I treat most NPCs this way (the few I don't are almost always 1st level rabble, though sometimes not minions), but the rest grow at a rate equal to a fraction of the PCs plus (or minus) something (minimum first level). One NPC adventurer, for example, grows at a rate of 1/8 the characters' level minus 2 (minimum 1). They found the unclassed (but intelligent) begger, brought him to a wizard's academy, and got him trained. But he'll never be their equal or even close. But as time goes on, he'll grow in his training at the wizard's academy. The longer you want the villain to be a threat, the higher the faction (2/3rds, or 7/8ths for really long-lasting ones); and the shorter the time of recurring threat, the lower the fraction (1/4 or even 1/8 for short-term, quickly out-classed recurring villains). Doing something like this really only works if the characters have met the villain already in an invironment where they might reasonably threaten it. Something like Orcus shouldn't increase in level until epic level characters have faced him once - and even then, probably not. Recurring villains, unless you have a specific plan for what happens past 30th level - probably shouldn't increase any more. If you must, however, they should probably be treated more like monsters at that point. NPCs should virtually never exceed that threshold, unless you have some very specific plans for them - in fact many (and maybe most), unless they're already there - probably shouldn't attain epic levels at all, and certainly not without a reason for them to get there.

Villain and NPC classesThe afore-mentioned classes I give my villains and NPCs are sometimes self-created. Especially if there's a character who has unique powers, I reverse-engineer what their class must have "looked like" to get to that point, and then proceed from there. Sometimes I'll even let players take those classes (presuming they aren't completely unbalanced). This usually changes their hp total, usually for the worse, but that's fine, as the characters are more likely to have briefer run-ins with them in future encounters anyway as they gain in power on the villain in question. I give them class features, hp, bloodied value, surges per day, and the whole shebang as a character class.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Cheaper solution: Just make it up as you go along. I've done it before. If players question you, throw vampiric sea trolls at them.

[tacticslion]

So, in this campaign I mentioned that I was running before (where my group is being indecisive) we'd taken a break for a bit because of various schedule things. In the middle of that break, we've cleaned up our house a few times and stuff has gotten shifted around. Now, I can't find the pre-published adventure I was basing things off of anywhere. I was following the adventure loosely, instead of strictly, but I was heavily relying on the stats and other pre-published stuff to hasten things along. Further, I've lost the maps I was using with the stuff itself.

So... Lady Fire Dove, I'd greatly appreciate it if you didn't read this. kthanxbai!does anyone have the Twilight Tomb Adventure? If so, could you PM some stuff to me? If not, does anyone have suggestions on where to go from here? Basically they're at the point where the orcs are beaten and they want to either fight Mourel or bypass him to go to the control room. I'd need the basic stats for the unique undead things, the glass golems, and the traps throughout. I've got some basic stat-stuff I can use in a pinch (and am developing my own), however it may quite quickly lead to a TPK... something that I'm okay with, but I don't want if I can help. I'd prefer balance, if possible. Also, as I'm unable to find it right now, does anyone not named Lady Fire Dove feel free to read this? Because they should!know how reincarnate interacts with undeath? As in, can a brain-in-a-jar be reincarnated?

[EVILNess]

I am a big fan of traps and machinations, which leads DMs asking me for advice on dungeon design, and general NPC plot.

Example 1:

I once designed a dungeon based around the 7 Deadly Sins for a bud of mine to use in his campaign. Picture the Greed room, stairs go down into a domed room with a golden fountain in the middle of the room, on which a silver eye rests, on the other side stairs go up and lead into the next part of the labyrinth. On the fountain is a plaque that reads "Tithing doth repent the sin of Avarice"

Inside the fountain there is a large amount of treasure. TONS of magical goods. Long story short, if you take something and try to leave with it the room seals and fills up with water from the fountain, drowning you.

The kicker is the only way to stop the water and open the way out is to put back what you took and then at least another 10% of GP worth of goods into the fountain. The eye on the fountain is a magical sentient construct for appraises everything you put into or take out of the fountain, and judges accordingly.

[shiney]

No clues! The player is your enemy! Your JOB is to kill them! Make it happen or you are not fit to DM a Dora the Explorer campaign. You'll be like "hey defenseless Dora & co, you have just encountered the Tarrasque" and the players will be like "Bitch please" and one shot it and your shit is just done.

KILL THEM

[Julford Hajime]

So I just agreed to start DM'ing a group next Saturday, the 5th. It's gonna be a weekly 4e group, and the first campaign I've ever led (I've done one-off dungeon runs before, including a well-recieved remake of the Cathedral dungeon in Chrono Trigger). Wanted to get some advice from you guys, as y'all seem to have led a fair number of groups.

1. What is a good way to start them off? 9 times out of 10 we start off as part of some sort of mercenary group, a guild, or are just "random band of adventurers who haven't killed each other quite yet #47".

2. I want to keep it a very fluid group, as we run once a week for four hours in a local library. Sometimes people can't show up, other times a person plays for a week or two and then decides they want to play something different (Which I'm totally okay with, it's just part of how our gaming group functions). I guess it kinda ties in to #1, but any tips? Usually we have an NPC or two with the group, and if something happens to a couple people, they head off with the NPC to do a secondary task while the people who are there handle the primary goal.

3. Any thoughts on this premise for a villain? Heroes futz around for the first gaming session or two before meeting the future-villain NPC, who is not at all future-villain seeming. NPC promises to hire adventurer party for money well beyond their normal amount of gold for that level, in exchange for escorting him to an artifact he's been 'researching'. Assuming party doesn't get greedy and runs off with it (This is a very real risk), he would then hire them once or twice more for increasingly more money to get increasingly more powerful items. After the second/third time doing such a quest, the NPC gives them their money, and tells them he no longer requires their services. Reveals true intentions, murders helpless orphans, blah blah blah, evil stuff. He does nothing to spurn the party, keeps true to his word, and when is all said and done has treated them very well and likely offers them a spot in his new world order. Hell, if they take it, campaign ends after a massacre or two, and I have the setting for villains in a future campaign

4. This is likely to be a very fast leveling game, like one per session. That way my players have options, and I can ensure that the campaign ends fairly fast (I'm looking at a five/six week run here, maybe more, but definitely ending it at level 10, which is the end of the paragon tier). Really, it's gonna be mostly quest exp, as fighting always takes up a lot of time with this group. Should I start them a bit higher leveled than 1? I was thinking starting at level 3, which gives them their first utility skills as well as a second encounter skill to use.

Okay, that seems like enough from me for now. I really like the idea of using the PCs to gather the villains items of power, especially if the villain isn't overtly evil and in fact is more generous to the party than most 'heroic' NPCs would be; the hardest part for me is figuring out how to start the whole thing, really.

[Meister]

On another forum I read about a way to start off campaigns once that struck me as excellent and well off the beaten path. Describe a situation - say, a busy marketplace in a small town, where an execution is about to be held. The delinquent stands on the scaffold, guarded by some watchmen, and a small crowd of locals and travellers has gathered to watch. Then let the players decide who their characters are in that situation. A Fighter might say he's a watchman, here to oversee that everything goes well; a Rogue might say he's mingling with the crowd, looking for easy marks, or he might actually be the delinquent; another player might say he's a messenger who has just arrived to stop the execution because new evidence has turned up, or he's simply just arrived in town and surprised at what's going on, and so on.

Basically come up with a situation, paint it in broad strokes, and let the players decide who they are in the context of that situation. If there's no readily apparent way they might find together as an adventuring party, prepare some sort of outside event that disrupts the situation that they can react to. It's a good way to introduce early interpersonal dynamic, it gives everyone a general idea of who everyone else is, and they can still all say "I'm in a tavern somewhere, the execution (or whatever) doesn't really interest me."

[Corel]

Originally Posted by Meister

On another forum I read about a way to start off campaigns once that struck me as excellent and well off the beaten path. Describe a situation - say, a busy marketplace in a small town, where an execution is about to be held. The delinquent stands on the scaffold, guarded by some watchmen, and a small crowd of locals and travellers has gathered to watch. Then let the players decide who their characters are in that situation. A Fighter might say he's a watchman, here to oversee that everything goes well; a Rogue might say he's mingling with the crowd, looking for easy marks, or he might actually be the delinquent; another player might say he's a messenger who has just arrived to stop the execution because new evidence has turned up, or he's simply just arrived in town and surprised at what's going on, and so on.

We did this exact situation before. I volunteered to be the one about to be hanged. After a lot of bumbling around and fumbled dice rolls to climb onto roofs (and filling me with arrows for a bunch of rounds) they finally managed to free me. All the players were seperately hired by the same person to save my PC. Reason being new evidence, or perhaps it's part of a larger conspiracy if you want to keep the ball rolling.

[Terex4]

Originally Posted by Julford Hajime

3. Any thoughts on this premise for a villain? Heroes futz around for the first gaming session or two before meeting the future-villain NPC, who is not at all future-villain seeming. NPC promises to hire adventurer party for money well beyond their normal amount of gold for that level, in exchange for escorting him to an artifact he's been 'researching'. Assuming party doesn't get greedy and runs off with it (This is a very real risk), he would then hire them once or twice more for increasingly more money to get increasingly more powerful items. After the second/third time doing such a quest, the NPC gives them their money, and tells them he no longer requires their services. Reveals true intentions, murders helpless orphans, blah blah blah, evil stuff. He does nothing to spurn the party, keeps true to his word, and when is all said and done has treated them very well and likely offers them a spot in his new world order. Hell, if they take it, campaign ends after a massacre or two, and I have the setting for villains in a future campaign

If you have proactive players, let them create the villain. The best example of this is my DM with his previous group rolled on the random encounter table and got Mage with Golem. The party was just starting out and he knew they couldn't handle such an encounter, so he improvised.

The encounter was a mage lying on the ground after a forced teleport by his associates with an inactive golem next to him. The mage was a red wizard of Thay who had fallen out with his peers as well as a master golem maker.

The party, seeing a red wizard and being the typical cutthroat players that they were, decided to steal all his stuff and throw him off a cliff. He survived the fall and started chasing the party. They found more of his stashes and continued to rob him. The party could have gotten rid of him by simply returning what they had stolen, but instead decided he needed to die.

Needless to say the villain pulled some seriously fucked up things on the party and they ultimately died to a lich they decided to rob to get magic items to kill the wizard.

Highlight of the game:
The party's sponsor was the mother of one of the members. While they were off plane, the wizard murdered her, reanimated her as a flesh golem, and married her becoming the owner of the adventuring company as a result.

[Azisien]

My 4E party just cannot die. I mean yeah ok they could be but the only time I've ever KO'd everyone was through absolutely unrealistically overwhelming odds that made it obvious it was one of those "Oh we have to lose this fight" things.

They're level 7 with level 4-5 gear and honestly they beat groups of monsters that are level 11. 4E pisses me off that way.

I have been trying some alternate guerilla tactics too. Tonight I unleashed a small horde of Deathjump spiders in a dark tunnel they were passing through. I had the spiders use an at-will ability to shift 6 squares and pounce for 3d6+5 damage with ongoing poison, slow, and prone status effects. As soon as the spiders started taking damage they would also retreat into their webs or the ceiling after every attack and try to stealth. Then they would all ready actions to pounce the first PC to be all alone.

It still didn't work! Argh! Die!