Mass Effect 3: It Ends Here

[Bells]

i'm just gonna take advantage to the fact that this guy mirrors my feelings quite well



This one a little bit less, but also agree with

[greed]

My two cents

It's still a big pile of shit, but it has reached in some places a tolerable level I guess? Still no faith in Bioware anymore. I guess my problems with the ends were


1. Starchild shits on the whole series thematically, I mean just meekly doing what the Reapers tell you at the last minute? LAAAAAMMMMMMEEE. Also it was ripping off Contact and Matrix Revolution both of which sucked. Not fixed by the EC, and the Refusal ending seems to be a deliberate fuck you to people who dislike the Starchild.


2. Synthesis the ending they push as the golden one makes no goddamn sense. Like yeah I know suspension of disbelief and all that, but Synthesis just goes way beyond everything else in the game it just shocks you out of the suspension of disbelief. The phrase "robot DNA" is used seriously. That is the kinda thing I would expect and like in a series that doesn't take itself half as seriously as ME. In addition it seems kinda like a massive violation to jam everybody full of cybernetic/organics depending on whether they are organic or synthetic. Like galactic rape. I don't even want to think about the amount of people getting fucked up body issues after this ending.EC doubles down and makes it even clearer this the is golden ending Bioware wants you to pick.


3. The endings were short lazy and didn't really tell you anything. EC does improve on this and is why Destroy is a good ending and Control an okay one.

Basically I still think Starchild ruins the whole ending, I still think the golden ending they push isn't just stupid but kind of morally wrong and sorta paints them as fucked up for thinking it's good. I also think Refusal is Bioware being petulant and passive agressive over fans daring to dislike their terrible terrible ending. But Destroy is now a pretty good ending if you ignore Starchild, cause at least you see all the Reapers die, and Control while sorta undermining some stuff in the previous games is pretty cool just for the Reaper Shepard voice over.

Basically it's gone from incredibly bad to just shitty.





Oh also Bells if you want a fun, great, big AAA game that actually sticks the landing and has a good endgame, Dragon's Dogma.

[Bells]

It's not really a secret that Bioware was pushing for Synthesis... it's the only ending that required your assets to be up to be avaliable. Just like it's not a secret AT ALL that they were pushing (almost forcing) Liara as the main romantic interest.

I, again, see myself at the same crossroads... what do you people really want?

I truly see no consensus in the people who didn't like EC... some say the endings are TOO happy, Others says it's not enough... others say that they should do more, others say that the fact that they did anything makes them hate it MORE...

Again... what were people expecting? Sometimes i honestly think people would only be satisfied if they were spoon feed EVERY little piece of data and information and anything with the slightly openness to consideration is now called a Plot Hole... specially if EVERY little thing wasn't explained or foreshadowed clearly in the previous games then it doesn't make sense... really?

Each Mass effect game is ALSO it's own closed story... you guys know this. This is not a easy thing to make. there will be cracks on the surface of course... but c'mon! The starchild is a problem, of course. But you literally spend the whole learning about the crucible and what it is...

I don't deny that the ending is not anything stellar... hell, i was frustrated by it. A lot. But the effort they made with this EC is all positive. And it pleased a lot of people... really most but the ones that were avid against it no matter what.

Now, c'mon... Dragon's Dogma is considered a good story now? Hey, it's a good game... one i hope gets it's day on the PC... But story-wise? C'mon it's a notch below Fable...

Mass effect has a fantastic story that ends on a "Ok" ending... that's more than what we usually get on the last few years across all games, genres and platforms... and it came from a company that accept that they made a mistake and fixed it by given the fans a ear without turning their own work into Fanfiction... again, doing more than most would or have done. That's fine and well by me...

[Marc v4.0]

I can't really say "The Starchild ending was the product of two people in a creative void writing it up at the last minute, and makes absolutly no sense at all with the narrative" in any more ways than we all have to help you understand what the problem was.

The only way you could possibly 'not understand' what the problem people had with it, at this point, is if you just legit can't read english.

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by Bells

Again... what were people expecting? Sometimes i honestly think people would only be satisfied if they were spoon feed EVERY little piece of data and information and anything with the slightly openness to consideration is now called a Plot Hole... specially if EVERY little thing wasn't explained or foreshadowed clearly in the previous games then it doesn't make sense... really?

Seriously... your arguing this point? That people are just being whiny and 'entitled' for wanting a story that isn't filled with plot holes and yes they are plot holes. It's not that people need more data for the 'holes' to be filled in. It's that the plot holes fuck with previous narrative. Not everything needs to be foreshadowed but even at the end of ME3 I still have no fucking idea what the crucible is really supposed to be. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

Originally Posted by Bells

I
Each Mass effect game is ALSO it's own closed story... you guys know this. This is not a easy thing to make. there will be cracks on the surface of course... but c'mon! The starchild is a problem, of course. But you literally spend the whole learning about the crucible and what it is...

No you don't. It's described as a weapon during the entire game the implication being it's a giant honking space gun. Even though apparently they have no fucking clue how it works or what it really does or even if they can make it work.

how did any one else not have serious problems with the alliance for going "HEY LOOK IT SOMETHING WE DONT UNDERSTAND AT ALL LETS SOME HOW BUILD IT. IT MUST END THE REAPERS BECAUSE PLOTS LAWLS."

The entire story line that focused on the crucible was stupid bullshit.

Edit:

Starchild was ridiculous for so many god damn reasons. That there should be no justification needed for why it's hated.

[greed]

The problem isn't the plot holes or missing information or whether or not it's happy. It's that Starchild is a terrible idea and should not have existed. I mean yeah the plot holes are a problem but they are nothing compared to the Starchild. I mean the ending is you literally doing one of three choices the Reapers give you. You don't see why that is an obnoxiously stupid plot point that completely flies in the face of the entire damn story? It would be like Berserk ending with Guts and the Godhand having a tea party. Or Avatar ending with Aang and the Firelord making out.

Also synthesis is nonsense that becomes unsettling when you think about it. I just got this image of people digging into their skin to get the machine parts out and other stuff.

Basically the whole thing was a clusterfuck of staggering incompetence and petulance. I suppose I shouldn't expected anything different after Dragon Age II.

Originally Posted by Bells

Now, c'mon... Dragon's Dogma is considered a good story now? Hey, it's a good game... one i hope gets it's day on the PC... But story-wise? C'mon it's a notch below Fable...

No it doesn't have good writing but it has a fantastic and satisfying ending. Which to me makes it way better written than ME3. Sure the rest of the game wasn't but when it ended I was happy with how it ended and think back fondly and immediately started a NG+. When I beat ME3 I felt immensely disappointed and sold the game.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by greed

The problem isn't the plot holes or missing information or whether or not it's happy. It's that Starchild is a terrible idea and should not have existed. I mean yeah the plot holes are a problem but they are nothing compared to the Starchild. I mean the ending is you literally doing one of three choices the Reapers give you. You don't see why that is an obnoxiously stupid plot point that completely flies in the face of the entire damn story? It would be like Berserk ending with Guts and the Godhand having a tea party. Or Avatar ending with Aang and the Firelord making out.

I knew Bioware wasn't going to rid of their precious Starchild in the Extended Cut, but I did at least get my hopes up and dared to dream of a final confrontation scene with Harbinger.
...Like, Bioware, Writing Tip 101: Before you end your story, you need the climax of the story to include a confrontation with the villain. And no, the Starchild doesn't count as the 'villain' because it's introduced as a last-second Deus Ex Machina device and it's willing to 'negotiate' with Shepard. And no, Marauder Shields doesn't count, either.

Like, here's the thing: It didn't need to be a boss battle gameplay sequence or anything. Just have Harbinger and Shepard share a goddamn five minute conversation. I'm shocked Bioware didn't realize that was a good idea. It'd at least help wash down the sour taste of the Starchild.

Also synthesis is nonsense that becomes unsettling when you think about it. I just got this image of people digging into their skin to get the machine parts out and other stuff.

Synthesis is, by far, the most disturbing and least ethically acceptable of the three endings, and that's comparing it to an ending where you effectively commit suicide (because Bioware's writers couldn't actually have Shepard try to do anything after his/her great speech in 'Refusal'), an ending where you commit fucking genocide, and an ending in which you forget the themes of the Mass Effect series, decide you retroactively agreed with the Illusive Man all along and become Space Reaper Jesus.

...I mean in the 'Synthesis' ending you essentially unilaterally alter every individual's genetic hard-wiring (through space-magic!), without their prior permission, in a manner that shouldn't exactly lead anyone to parade Shepard around as a hero of anything, except maybe a hero of coercion, invasion of privacy, battery, and sheer unadulterated stupidity.

All the endings except 'Refusal' are extremely objectionable based on basic, universal principles of 'human' rights (which presumably also might apply to Asari, Turians, Krogan, etc.) Bioware is just hoping you don't squint and micro-analyze the options enough to realize that Shepard (if alive, as s/he is in Reaperized form in 'Control' and potentially in human form in 'Destroy') should be tried as a war criminal for negotiating with the enemy and unilaterally agreeing to a 'solution' with massive consequences.

...And in the 'Refusal' option, congratulations! You lose. And you don't just lose with some degree of dignity; Bioware is too busy giving you the middle finger to dare at least let Shepard and his team go out with their dignity intact.

The sad thing is, take the 'Refusal' ending, make it the default ending for the series when the game was originally released, and maybe reward you with a slightly better outcome if you garnered an exceptional amount of war assets, and that ending would have been fine. Hell, have the additional war assets only make a difference in terms of whether it's implied the next cycle can defeat the reapers or not. Way back before ME3 was released, I speculated that ME3 might end on a downer, with Shepard's efforts only paving the way for the next cycle to finally conquer the Reaper threat.
Where I disagree with Greed is, I don't care if the antagonist represents itself as Harbinger or another Reaper or displays itself as a holographic child or as your love interest or what have you.

I just want Shepard to refuse the bastard and remain in-character. And I don't want the game to treat the one reasonable interpretation of Shepard's characterization akin to a submission of defeat. The 'Refusal' ending would have been just fine if Shepard didn't just stand there as the Starchild walked away, after, you know, Shepard literally JUST made a speech about how s/he'd keep fighting and how s/he'd never give up.

And it would have been just fine if the 'Refusal' ending was included as original content, instead of included in the EC, when the very essence of its inclusion is essentially Bioware just responding to criticism with a middle finger to those who dared criticize.

It's not about a 'happy ending'; Bioware could have annihilated Shepard and his friends the moment Shepard chose 'Refuse.' Just show them all going down fighting. Have Shepard broadcast that last speech to the fleet, show the main characters applauding Shepard for being a badass who refuses to give into demands to commit genocide or forcible synthetic augmentation, and then kill them all off. That would have been phenomenal.
...Too bad it's not what we got.

[Pip Boy]

Since Bioware's writers are just bad at writing endings I'll go ahead and let someone else write it for them.

Originally Posted by How it should have ended

"So Shepard, its up to you to choose."

"No! You're a creep. Go away. We were having a good time until you showed up jeepers. Uuuuugh. Go drink some coffee with cream or something, because I'll tell you something, this is a happy place!"

Can someone please make that a video? Because that'd be good.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I don't know why noone understands where the star baby comes from. didn't you watch 2001

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Pip Boy

"So Shepard, its up to you to choose."

"No! You're a creep. Go away. We were having a good time until you showed up jeepers. Uuuuugh. Go drink some coffee with cream or something, because I'll tell you something, this is a happy place!"

You are my favorite person ever for making that reference.


Also, about the refusal ending, it's pretty ridiculous in general simply how it's initiated. Shepard shoots a hologram. Why would Shepard ever do that? The whole thing just felt like an Easter-Egg/Alternate-Ending thing Bioware threw in for a laugh.