So about why aliens haven't contacted us - Page 3

Kim · 10-24-2012, 08:40 PM

This question is easy.

Aliens haven't contacted us because we assholes.

Nobody wants to hang out with assholes.

BOOM

NEXT QUESTION

Krylo · 10-24-2012, 08:42 PM

Oh, is that why I don't have any friends?

Aerozord · 10-24-2012, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kim

Nobody wants to hang out with assholes.

haven't been on the internet for very long I see

Kim · 10-24-2012, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krylo

Oh, is that why I don't have any friends?

no you don't have any friends cuz everybody hides behind the lockers going "doki doki i wonder if sempai will notice me"

Professor Smarmiarty · 10-25-2012, 04:51 AM

Water is actually harmful to early life forming models- I know this cause I have run them. The problem comes in that when you are forming your first peptide bonds they hydrolise better than they form peptide bonds. So if you have water around when you are trying to make say your first RNA it going to split that shit up like a mofo.
Once you have about 4-5 peptide bonds in your molecule already then water isn't as much of a problem.
This adds to the fact that water tends to dilute your ingredients when what you need to form complex, information carrying molecules is generally large concentrations.
There are various ways to get around this- the one I'm currentely favouring is that instead of water the first peptide molecules formed in interstellar ice rather than water and then once they were say a few peptides long they hit earth and gained wate rand then kicked off.
Once you have like your first protocells and shit though, as far as we know water is pretty essential- pretty much all the alternative liquid speculations all give way to water eventually that I'm aware off- you can use say formaldehyde or ammonia or fucking clay minerals to start forming the first shit in a dry environment where water won't fuck up yo biscuits but eventually they gotta give away to daddy H2O once you have proper cellular life as far as I'm aware.

Also formaldehyde is the best evolutionary liquid if you going to not use water. Ammonia people are smoking their ass.

Also the whole alternative forms of life that say breathe something other than O or are made of Si actually seems ridiculously unlikely for me. Why? Because we know why life is made from C rather than anything else, we know why we breathe O rather than anything else. Its because these are chemically the most versatile and energetically favourable forms to build complex, information carrying life type molecules. C makes a wide wide variety of different bond types and structures with different geometries and energies which can be tailored to the correct needs and these bonds tend to be reversible allowing energy storing/release and information type reactions rather than say Si which only makes a few types of bond, which have only a very types of angle and tend to be less reversible- like Si-O is very strong bond. Breathing O makes sense mostly because the O respiration cycle releases far more energy than say a Cl respiration cycle and in environments likely to allow the formation of complex molecules (ie sheltered and not overly hot as heat energy destroys molecules) will have O as a gas whereas other things are not as likely to be a gas.
Other types of biochemistry could easily be possible bu tthere are very good reasons why we have the chemistry we do.
This also applies to water- water provides energy in the metabolic processes in a way that other liquids can't really match as far as we know.

As for why we havne't found life contacting us its pretty straightforward- first they could be contacting us in any possible way most of which we haven't even thought about. So we have to assume they are sending EM signals out like we do. Then there is a gigantic spectrum of wavelengths and directions it could be coming from of which we only search a tiny fraction. And then we have only been actively searching for a few decades which in interstellar time is nothing.

E: Also I reckon Ost failed his exam because he wrote some Adornoesqe bullshit about how life was predetermined from the conditions at hand thus invoking the post-Kant seperation of reason and action, depowering the chemical drive towards life as a mere quirk of semantics and simply declaring that it must. I would give him a D- and a frowny face. With stormclouds.

Geminex · 10-25-2012, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kim

This question is easy.

Aliens haven't contacted us because we assholes.

Nobody wants to hang out with assholes.

Oh, is that why Krylo doesn't have any f-
wait fuck

Osterbaum · 10-25-2012, 09:51 AM

Lots of microbes are able to actually use other electron acceptors besides oxygen in their cellular respiration. In addition some organisms are able to survive mostly or only by their anaerobic respiration processes. So I'm not sure oxygen would be a requirement at least for microbial life.

I mean the whole reason we have oxygen in the amounts we do is because of oxygenic photoautotrophic organisms that make that shit from water.

Quote:

Also I reckon Ost failed his exam because he wrote some Adornoesqe bullshit about how life was predetermined from the conditions at hand thus invoking the post-Kant seperation of reason and action, depowering the chemical drive towards life as a mere quirk of semantics and simply declaring that it must. I would give him a D- and a frowny face. With stormclouds.

I don't yet know if I failed, I might have passed! Besides if I did fail it's because I don't know enough about galaxies and shit. Now biology, that's my expertise!

RobinStarwing · 10-25-2012, 10:21 AM

All this talk is making me think about the Fog Worms from Episode 2.2 of Primeval.

Seil · 10-25-2012, 10:38 AM

Smarty's comment is making me think about the opening scene of Prometheus, what with that Human Alien murdering himself to start off humans.
Seriously, though, if there was an advanced alien race, capable of building a spaceship that travels the incredibly long journey to us... why would they? Let's break it down:

Alien Race
- Capable of interstellar travel
- Has highly advanced technology, including machines to recycle air, food and water supply for long journeys, OR
- Are capable of flying very long distances in very short amounts of time

Now, either of those ideas mean that they can travel through space. This suggests that they're pretty self-sufficient. They'd also have to be fantastically smart. Why would they want anything from us? Imagine what we, and our history must look like to a bunch of super-smart space faring aliens. We're violent apes. We're dangerous.

Of course, you could cite Men In Black, V, or District 9 to see interpretations of several scenarios.

Osterbaum · 10-25-2012, 12:57 PM

I don't know, I've always felt that a certain amount of naivety is involved in imagining aliens as somehow inherently better than we are. I don't buy that.

e: also that documentary is pretty interesting, I've already seen it like twice

10-24-2012, 08:40 PM	#21
Kim adorable Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12,950	This question is easy. Aliens haven't contacted us because we assholes. Nobody wants to hang out with assholes. BOOM NEXT QUESTION __________________ this post is about how to successfully H the Kimmy

10-24-2012, 08:42 PM	#22
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	Oh, is that why I don't have any friends? __________________ I am very tired.

10-25-2012, 04:51 AM	#25
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	Water is actually harmful to early life forming models- I know this cause I have run them. The problem comes in that when you are forming your first peptide bonds they hydrolise better than they form peptide bonds. So if you have water around when you are trying to make say your first RNA it going to split that shit up like a mofo. Once you have about 4-5 peptide bonds in your molecule already then water isn't as much of a problem. This adds to the fact that water tends to dilute your ingredients when what you need to form complex, information carrying molecules is generally large concentrations. There are various ways to get around this- the one I'm currentely favouring is that instead of water the first peptide molecules formed in interstellar ice rather than water and then once they were say a few peptides long they hit earth and gained wate rand then kicked off. Once you have like your first protocells and shit though, as far as we know water is pretty essential- pretty much all the alternative liquid speculations all give way to water eventually that I'm aware off- you can use say formaldehyde or ammonia or fucking clay minerals to start forming the first shit in a dry environment where water won't fuck up yo biscuits but eventually they gotta give away to daddy H2O once you have proper cellular life as far as I'm aware. Also formaldehyde is the best evolutionary liquid if you going to not use water. Ammonia people are smoking their ass. Also the whole alternative forms of life that say breathe something other than O or are made of Si actually seems ridiculously unlikely for me. Why? Because we know why life is made from C rather than anything else, we know why we breathe O rather than anything else. Its because these are chemically the most versatile and energetically favourable forms to build complex, information carrying life type molecules. C makes a wide wide variety of different bond types and structures with different geometries and energies which can be tailored to the correct needs and these bonds tend to be reversible allowing energy storing/release and information type reactions rather than say Si which only makes a few types of bond, which have only a very types of angle and tend to be less reversible- like Si-O is very strong bond. Breathing O makes sense mostly because the O respiration cycle releases far more energy than say a Cl respiration cycle and in environments likely to allow the formation of complex molecules (ie sheltered and not overly hot as heat energy destroys molecules) will have O as a gas whereas other things are not as likely to be a gas. Other types of biochemistry could easily be possible bu tthere are very good reasons why we have the chemistry we do. This also applies to water- water provides energy in the metabolic processes in a way that other liquids can't really match as far as we know. As for why we havne't found life contacting us its pretty straightforward- first they could be contacting us in any possible way most of which we haven't even thought about. So we have to assume they are sending EM signals out like we do. Then there is a gigantic spectrum of wavelengths and directions it could be coming from of which we only search a tiny fraction. And then we have only been actively searching for a few decades which in interstellar time is nothing. E: Also I reckon Ost failed his exam because he wrote some Adornoesqe bullshit about how life was predetermined from the conditions at hand thus invoking the post-Kant seperation of reason and action, depowering the chemical drive towards life as a mere quirk of semantics and simply declaring that it must. I would give him a D- and a frowny face. With stormclouds. Last edited by Professor Smarmiarty; 10-25-2012 at 05:34 AM.

10-25-2012, 10:21 AM	#28
RobinStarwing C.M.B.A.S.O.B Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Everywhere until you look at me. Posts: 737	All this talk is making me think about the Fog Worms from Episode 2.2 of Primeval. __________________ *NPF's resident Crazy Magnificent Bastard Ass Son Of A Bitch (CMBASOB)* Accept No Substitutes Also known as "The Least Interesting Man in The World" according to multiple surveys

10-25-2012, 12:57 PM	#30
Osterbaum The revolution will be memed! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: FIN Posts: 5,967	I don't know, I've always felt that a certain amount of naivety is involved in imagining aliens as somehow inherently better than we are. I don't buy that. e: also that documentary is pretty interesting, I've already seen it like twice __________________ D is for Dirty Commie!

10-25-2012, 10:38 AM	#29
Seil Super stressed! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: British Columbia Posts: 8,081	Smarty's comment is making me think about the opening scene of Prometheus, what with that Human Alien murdering himself to start off humans. Seriously, though, if there was an advanced alien race, capable of building a spaceship that travels the incredibly long journey to us... why would they? Let's break it down: Alien Race - Capable of interstellar travel - Has highly advanced technology, including machines to recycle air, food and water supply for long journeys, OR - Are capable of flying very long distances in very short amounts of time Now, either of those ideas mean that they can travel through space. This suggests that they're pretty self-sufficient. They'd also have to be fantastically smart. Why would they want anything from us? Imagine what we, and our history must look like to a bunch of super-smart space faring aliens. We're violent apes. We're dangerous. Of course, you could cite Men In Black, V, or District 9 to see interpretations of several scenarios.