Why Do We Idolize Athletes, Musicians And Actors? - Page 3

Amake · 01-02-2013, 09:03 PM

I'd say the cultural relevance of a given thing is exactly the same thing as how much society cares about that thing.

Solid Snake · 01-02-2013, 11:25 PM

This isn't exactly a new phenomenon in culture, though.

Back in the days of the Romans, gladiators were so much the rage that graffiti was sprawled across cities declaring women (and even men's) sexual desire for them and adoration of them. The best gladiators, like our A-list celebrities, lived lives that were better than anyone's but the Emperors'. Plebs and patricians had their favorite gladiators and favorite teams in chariot races.

For the medieval era, replace "gladiators" with "jousters" in western Europe and with charioteers in Byzantium. While there weren't similar written records to support a notion of celebrity in ancient 'Mexico', we know the Aztecs sure loved their ullamaliztli.

And of course, once theater picked up -- and there were variations of theatrical arts that all became popular in China, Japan, Europe, you name a corner of the world, they had it -- the more artistic sorts had their chance at celebrity, too. Shakespearian actors were the celebrities in Elizabethan England.

Back in Lincoln's day, he was so utterly obsessed with his favorite nineteenth-century actors and playwrights that his obsession literally led to his premature death. And, yes, famous actors from the more-cultured Europe would be paid amazing amounts of money to travel and perform in America -- kind of the opposite of what is stereotypically assumed today, because back then America was just a hillbilly backwater and Europe was the center of higher forms of culture.
(Which is...still true today, conceded.)

Everyone loves a bit of revelry in their lives because life has always been depressing, and so those who actually bring revelry have a chance at becoming revered. I don't see a major issue with that, it's been human nature since the dawn of time. And we all do it, too -- if not with the conventional celebrities those 'lesser' jocks and preps and conservatives love, then with our own dorky celebrities -- like Steve Jobs. We don't worship Steve Jobs for innovations that truly benefited mankind to the extent we appreciate him for our iPods, after all. Jobs' major success was adding stylistic flare and 'branding' to his products to ensure everyone's obsessions with Apple. (I know he's had greater objective successes than that, but those aren't what he's generally known for.)

And who else do we idolize? Video game developers, video game series and characters, producers and designers involved in the animes we like, voice actors. Hell, we'll cosplay as them, which is essentially akin to dressing like one's favorite celebrity.
...Even webcomic artists. I think we've talked more about Andrew Hussie here than anyone else.

We're not really any more enlightened than past generations or our less 'dorky' contemporary friends and family members. It's a historical phenomenon and it really isn't a terrible one. It's not like we have better role models in our more 'serious' vocations (capitalists or politicians.)

And while it would be great to see scientists and engineers get more love, truth be told it's actually better for scientists and engineers today than it was in past centuries when they'd be burned at the stake for heretical beliefs. These days many scientists and engineers have decent chances of becoming famous through accomplishments in sectors like medicine or IT. And, perhaps most importantly, minorities and women have a better chance than ever at achieving such fame and renown -- whether for legitimate or 'illegitimate' reasons.

We might erroneously assume, as many conservatives do, that history was 'purer' in the sense that all these historical scientists and philosophers are well-known and we lack similar contemporaries today, but truth be told history only seems filled with reputable men with the benefit of hindsight. Aristotle and Plato and whatnot. They're all great reads, but philosophers and scientists of yesteryears were spread thin through the passing of generations, if not centuries. It's not like there was ever a utopia where serious men with serious intellectual interests and no trivial hobbies (and back then, it'd be vastly disproportionately men) made up a larger share of the population.

Remember, in the eyes of the average American, our obsessions with (insert anime / Homestuck / videogame here) seems every bit as trivial as their obsession with (insert sports star / soap opera / reality TV star here.) That's a lesson I'm learning the hard way right now from my parents, who despise my obsessions with certain characters and voice-actors from Persona 4 Golden every bit as much as I despise their obsessions with random actors. A little bit of empathy from everyone from different parts and parcels of society could go a long way.

And, celebrity adoration can actually have positive effects! My mother's hatred towards LGBT families is constantly tested by her affiliation towards and respect for Ellen -- the Ellen who does the talk shows she loves. Indeed, celebrities often expose us to foreign cultures and lifestyles we otherwise wouldn't know anything about, and they can break down stereotypical assumptions we'd make about 'outsiders.' Black celebrities -- jazz players, sports stars like Jackie Robinson, etc. -- were major factors in instructing white Americans on their bigotry. Every time Ellen talks about marriage equality on her stupid show right now, it's the closest I've seen my mom to having serious doubts about her position against gay marriage -- Ellen's accomplished what no Democratic politician could there.

In short: The whole "Celebrities are terribad and a totally new phenomenon that show how society has disintegrated lately" bullshit -- disproportionately spewed by conservatives, though occasionally also by 'enlightened' holier-than-thou liberals -- is bullshit. Yeah, Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian don't deserve shit. But for every Kim and Paris there's dozens upon dozens of celebrities with legitimate athletic or artistic talent who deserve accolades and who really aren't awful role-models. Even fictional characters can serve similar purposes.

/my two cents

CABAL49 · 01-03-2013, 01:06 AM

Since Snake didn't use any of that small text that is degrading to my eyes, I read his post.

Solid Snake · 01-03-2013, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CABAL49

Since Snake didn't use any of that small text that is degrading to my eyes, I read his post.

Shit
I need to start using that again, don't I?

Professor Smarmiarty · 01-03-2013, 04:25 AM

If it makes you feel any better I didn't read it.

CABAL49 · 01-03-2013, 10:18 AM

You just wait, sooner or later I will go to an eye doctor so that I can get new seeing devices. Because who can afford to put lasers in their eyes? These rich fucks.

01-02-2013, 09:03 PM	#21
Amake Keeper of the new Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: A place without judgment Posts: 4,506	I'd say the cultural relevance of a given thing is exactly the same thing as how much society cares about that thing. __________________ Hope insistent, trust implicit, love inherent, life immersed

01-02-2013, 11:25 PM	#22
Solid Snake Erotic Esquire Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,563	SNAKE RANT ALERT This isn't exactly a new phenomenon in culture, though. Back in the days of the Romans, gladiators were so much the rage that graffiti was sprawled across cities declaring women (and even men's) sexual desire for them and adoration of them. The best gladiators, like our A-list celebrities, lived lives that were better than anyone's but the Emperors'. Plebs and patricians had their favorite gladiators and favorite teams in chariot races. For the medieval era, replace "gladiators" with "jousters" in western Europe and with charioteers in Byzantium. While there weren't similar written records to support a notion of celebrity in ancient 'Mexico', we know the Aztecs sure loved their ullamaliztli. And of course, once theater picked up -- and there were variations of theatrical arts that all became popular in China, Japan, Europe, you name a corner of the world, they had it -- the more artistic sorts had their chance at celebrity, too. Shakespearian actors were the celebrities in Elizabethan England. Back in Lincoln's day, he was so utterly obsessed with his favorite nineteenth-century actors and playwrights that his obsession literally led to his premature death. And, yes, famous actors from the more-cultured Europe would be paid amazing amounts of money to travel and perform in America -- kind of the opposite of what is stereotypically assumed today, because back then America was just a hillbilly backwater and Europe was the center of higher forms of culture. (Which is...still true today, conceded.) Everyone loves a bit of revelry in their lives because life has always been depressing, and so those who actually bring revelry have a chance at becoming revered. I don't see a major issue with that, it's been human nature since the dawn of time. And we all do it, too -- if not with the conventional celebrities those 'lesser' jocks and preps and conservatives love, then with our own dorky celebrities -- like Steve Jobs. We don't worship Steve Jobs for innovations that truly benefited mankind to the extent we appreciate him for our iPods, after all. Jobs' major success was adding stylistic flare and 'branding' to his products to ensure everyone's obsessions with Apple. (I know he's had greater objective successes than that, but those aren't what he's generally known for.) And who else do we idolize? Video game developers, video game series and characters, producers and designers involved in the animes we like, voice actors. Hell, we'll cosplay as them, which is essentially akin to dressing like one's favorite celebrity. ...Even webcomic artists. I think we've talked more about Andrew Hussie here than anyone else. We're not really any more enlightened than past generations or our less 'dorky' contemporary friends and family members. It's a historical phenomenon and it really isn't a terrible one. It's not like we have better role models in our more 'serious' vocations (capitalists or politicians.) And while it would be great to see scientists and engineers get more love, truth be told it's actually better for scientists and engineers today than it was in past centuries when they'd be burned at the stake for heretical beliefs. These days many scientists and engineers have decent chances of becoming famous through accomplishments in sectors like medicine or IT. And, perhaps most importantly, minorities and women have a better chance than ever at achieving such fame and renown -- whether for legitimate or 'illegitimate' reasons. We might erroneously assume, as many conservatives do, that history was 'purer' in the sense that all these historical scientists and philosophers are well-known and we lack similar contemporaries today, but truth be told history only seems filled with reputable men with the benefit of hindsight. Aristotle and Plato and whatnot. They're all great reads, but philosophers and scientists of yesteryears were spread thin through the passing of generations, if not centuries. It's not like there was ever a utopia where serious men with serious intellectual interests and no trivial hobbies (and back then, it'd be vastly disproportionately men) made up a larger share of the population. Remember, in the eyes of the average American, our obsessions with (insert anime / Homestuck / videogame here) seems every bit as trivial as their obsession with (insert sports star / soap opera / reality TV star here.) That's a lesson I'm learning the hard way right now from my parents, who despise my obsessions with certain characters and voice-actors from Persona 4 Golden every bit as much as I despise their obsessions with random actors. A little bit of empathy from everyone from different parts and parcels of society could go a long way. And, celebrity adoration can actually have positive effects! My mother's hatred towards LGBT families is constantly tested by her affiliation towards and respect for Ellen -- the Ellen who does the talk shows she loves. Indeed, celebrities often expose us to foreign cultures and lifestyles we otherwise wouldn't know anything about, and they can break down stereotypical assumptions we'd make about 'outsiders.' Black celebrities -- jazz players, sports stars like Jackie Robinson, etc. -- were major factors in instructing white Americans on their bigotry. Every time Ellen talks about marriage equality on her stupid show right now, it's the closest I've seen my mom to having serious doubts about her position against gay marriage -- Ellen's accomplished what no Democratic politician could there. In short: The whole "Celebrities are terribad and a totally new phenomenon that show how society has disintegrated lately" bullshit -- disproportionately spewed by conservatives, though occasionally also by 'enlightened' holier-than-thou liberals -- is bullshit. Yeah, Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian don't deserve shit. But for every Kim and Paris there's dozens upon dozens of celebrities with legitimate athletic or artistic talent who deserve accolades and who really aren't awful role-models. Even fictional characters can serve similar purposes. /my two cents __________________ *WARNING:* Snek's all up in this thread. Be prepared to read massive walls of text. Last edited by Solid Snake; 01-02-2013 at 11:31 PM.

01-03-2013, 01:06 AM	#23
CABAL49 Not bad. Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Senatus Populusque Americanus Posts: 1,584	Since Snake didn't use any of that small text that is degrading to my eyes, I read his post.

01-03-2013, 04:25 AM	#25
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	If it makes you feel any better I didn't read it.

01-03-2013, 10:18 AM	#26
CABAL49 Not bad. Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Senatus Populusque Americanus Posts: 1,584	You just wait, sooner or later I will go to an eye doctor so that I can get new seeing devices. Because who can afford to put lasers in their eyes? These rich fucks.