"Vaccinations Are Good Things" or "Why Seil Is Going To Bust A Nut" - Page 3

Magus · 12-18-2013, 12:25 AM

That one with them saying they "we used to eat dirt and we never get sick" i.e. them now as adults in the present, is really the dumbest one, as it completely misunderstands why these vaccines are given to children: TO COMBAT CHILDHOOD DISEASES. I guess children should just sack up and shrug off that whooping cough by eating some dirt.

Aerozord · 12-18-2013, 12:29 AM

oh the anti-antibiotic argument. I guess they dont bother me as much because there is logic there, admittedly its an overly Darwinist survival of the fittest mindset but I can understand it.

As someone with a shred of empathy I dont support it, but I can see a rational mind coming to that conclusion. Not an altruistic mind, but a sane one

Seil · 12-18-2013, 02:29 AM

Aerozord · 12-18-2013, 11:17 AM

just tossing this out there, they dont use mercury anymore anyways. Its been so long since they have most people on this forum never even had a vaccination with it.

This is all going off memory of course but I do know most anti-vaccination 'facts' are pretty dated.

phil_ · 12-18-2013, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amake

Kind of like the invention of the wheel, only scary if you're afraid of needles.

With modern technology, they can now make wheels with absolutely zero needles. Living in the future!

Magus · 12-19-2013, 01:03 AM

Maybe eggs cause autism?! DUN DUN DUNNNNN

batgirl · 12-19-2013, 12:53 PM

My opinion on vaccines:

They're great. Modern medicine has come a long way since the days of cupping, leeches and cocaine toothache drops.

As someone who is on the front lines of getting exposed to all sorts of nasties, I make it a point to ask all the moms and dads of my pediatric patients whether their child is up to date with vaccinations. Don't forget, I'm taking your child to a hospital, the breeding grounds of horrible germs like mrsa, cdiff and all sorts of delicious germies. If a parent tells me that they don't vaccinate their kids (and yes, this has happened), the kid gets a mask on their face, and I get a mask on my face, all before they get into my truck.

Why?

Kid A, let's call him NoVax, is not up to date. His parents call the ambulance because little NoVax has a fever, aches, chills, rash and a cold. NoVax gets into my ambulance and coughs all over it, leaving his delicious measles all over my truck. I take NoVax to the hospital and even though I've thoroughly cleaned my stretcher, my truck still has measles in the back. Next call is for Kid B, CantVax. Little CantVax is immuno-compromised and can't be vaccinated. He gets into my ambulance and sucks in all the wonderful measles that NoVax left over. Delicious.

Now, I make sure that my ass is all filled up with vaccines on schedule. If I needed convincing, which I don't, the fact that I was exposed to WHOOPING COUGH 3 TIMES THIS YEAR seals the deal. Did I get sick? Nope, because I have the vaccine.

Now herein lies my complaint, my one silly complaint.

Choice.

Do I think parents should have the right to choose whether to vaccinate their kids? Yes. However, I do think that they should be given all the information for AND against each argument before they make that decision.

I am forced by my job every year to get the flu shot as a mandatory thing. If I don't, I have to wear a surgical mask anytime I'm in contact with a patient, which is all the fucking time. Now, the only problem with this is that I've been in EMS for 9 years now, I've only been forced to get the flu shot for the past 4, and when did I ever get the flu? Every time I get the flu shot. Seriously, I never got the flu before that, and I was in contact with sick people all the time. My sister even had the swine flu and I didn't get that. But I get the flu shot now and 2 days after the shot, I'm down with the flu. Full on, puking-fevering-chilling-aching flu.I get that I'm in the "high risk" category, but I'm also an adult who knows her own limitations. If I choose to not get the flu shot and then get the flu, guess what? I'm not going to work. I just think that I should have the right to choose is all.

Azisien · 12-19-2013, 10:15 PM

That last part right there dissuades *many* people from getting the flu shot. People that were on the fence about it, got it, and got the flu (or flu-like symptoms identical to the flu), tend to stop getting the flu shot. It doesn't make convincing people any easier.

Aerozord · 12-20-2013, 12:51 AM

Wow batgirl, 9 years? I remember you talking about your EMS training, How time flies

Thing with choice is when it affects others. Children dont get a choice, and its a fine line between finding preventative measures unneeded and endangerment. While I doubt anyone would say that as an adult you shouldn't be able to do whatever the hell you want, hard when it comes to kids.

The issue I have isn't that they don't vaccinate their kids, I think its unwise but as there is no direct risk I feel its a parents choice. Contrasting to giving a child an antibiotic where parents choice has direct and immediate effect in which chase they shouldn't get a choice. My issue is the misinformation. There is some risk to vaccinations, this is fact, this is a fair argument. But its not the one they are making. The only risk of vaccinations is the weakened virus itself, not all the other stuff in it. Stuff that is in fact designed to lessen the risk of the virus.

Grandmaster_Skweeb · 12-20-2013, 09:10 PM

I've already posted about my allergic reactions to flu shots and all that, so that's a moot point.

What I dislike about flu vaccinations specifically is that it gets treated like the end all be all solution. It may help, but like batgirl alluded to: it has a good chance of not working at all because the flu virus has such a fuckin crazy mutation rate. essentially one is getting vaccinations for a strain of influenza that could very well never exist anymore.

12-18-2013, 12:29 AM	#22
Aerozord So we are clear Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Former murder capital of the world Posts: 13,824	oh the anti-antibiotic argument. I guess they dont bother me as much because there is logic there, admittedly its an overly Darwinist survival of the fittest mindset but I can understand it. As someone with a shred of empathy I dont support it, but I can see a rational mind coming to that conclusion. Not an altruistic mind, but a sane one __________________ "don't hate me for being a heterosexual white guy disparaging slacktivism, hate me for all those murders I've done."

12-18-2013, 11:17 AM	#24
Aerozord So we are clear Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Former murder capital of the world Posts: 13,824	just tossing this out there, they dont use mercury anymore anyways. Its been so long since they have most people on this forum never even had a vaccination with it. This is all going off memory of course but I do know most anti-vaccination 'facts' are pretty dated. __________________ "don't hate me for being a heterosexual white guy disparaging slacktivism, hate me for all those murders I've done."

12-20-2013, 12:51 AM	#29
Aerozord So we are clear Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Former murder capital of the world Posts: 13,824	Wow batgirl, 9 years? I remember you talking about your EMS training, How time flies Thing with choice is when it affects others. Children dont get a choice, and its a fine line between finding preventative measures unneeded and endangerment. While I doubt anyone would say that as an adult you shouldn't be able to do whatever the hell you want, hard when it comes to kids. The issue I have isn't that they don't vaccinate their kids, I think its unwise but as there is no direct risk I feel its a parents choice. Contrasting to giving a child an antibiotic where parents choice has direct and immediate effect in which chase they shouldn't get a choice. My issue is the misinformation. There is some risk to vaccinations, this is fact, this is a fair argument. But its not the one they are making. The only risk of vaccinations is the weakened virus itself, not all the other stuff in it. Stuff that is in fact designed to lessen the risk of the virus. __________________ "don't hate me for being a heterosexual white guy disparaging slacktivism, hate me for all those murders I've done." Last edited by Aerozord; 12-20-2013 at 12:55 AM.

12-18-2013, 12:25 AM	#21
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	That one with them saying they "we used to eat dirt and we never get sick" i.e. them now as adults in the present, is really the dumbest one, as it completely misunderstands why these vaccines are given to children: TO COMBAT CHILDHOOD DISEASES. I guess children should just sack up and shrug off that whooping cough by eating some dirt.

12-18-2013, 02:29 AM	#23
Seil Super stressed! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: British Columbia Posts: 8,081

12-19-2013, 01:03 AM	#26
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	Maybe eggs cause autism?! DUN DUN DUNNNNN

12-19-2013, 12:53 PM	#27
batgirl Aim for the top! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Infield Posts: 2,583	My opinion on vaccines: They're great. Modern medicine has come a long way since the days of cupping, leeches and cocaine toothache drops. As someone who is on the front lines of getting exposed to all sorts of nasties, I make it a point to ask all the moms and dads of my pediatric patients whether their child is up to date with vaccinations. Don't forget, I'm taking your child to a hospital, the breeding grounds of horrible germs like mrsa, cdiff and all sorts of delicious germies. If a parent tells me that they don't vaccinate their kids (and yes, this has happened), the kid gets a mask on their face, and I get a mask on my face, all before they get into my truck. Why? Kid A, let's call him NoVax, is not up to date. His parents call the ambulance because little NoVax has a fever, aches, chills, rash and a cold. NoVax gets into my ambulance and coughs all over it, leaving his delicious measles all over my truck. I take NoVax to the hospital and even though I've thoroughly cleaned my stretcher, my truck still has measles in the back. Next call is for Kid B, CantVax. Little CantVax is immuno-compromised and can't be vaccinated. He gets into my ambulance and sucks in all the wonderful measles that NoVax left over. Delicious. Now, I make sure that my ass is all filled up with vaccines on schedule. If I needed convincing, which I don't, the fact that I was exposed to WHOOPING COUGH 3 TIMES THIS YEAR seals the deal. Did I get sick? Nope, because I have the vaccine. Now herein lies my complaint, my one silly complaint. Choice. Do I think parents should have the right to choose whether to vaccinate their kids? Yes. However, I do think that they should be given all the information for AND against each argument before they make that decision. I am forced by my job every year to get the flu shot as a mandatory thing. If I don't, I have to wear a surgical mask anytime I'm in contact with a patient, which is all the fucking time. Now, the only problem with this is that I've been in EMS for 9 years now, I've only been forced to get the flu shot for the past 4, and when did I ever get the flu? Every time I get the flu shot. Seriously, I never got the flu before that, and I was in contact with sick people all the time. My sister even had the swine flu and I didn't get that. But I get the flu shot now and 2 days after the shot, I'm down with the flu. Full on, puking-fevering-chilling-aching flu.I get that I'm in the "high risk" category, but I'm also an adult who knows her own limitations. If I choose to not get the flu shot and then get the flu, guess what? I'm not going to work. I just think that I should have the right to choose is all.

12-19-2013, 10:15 PM	#28
Azisien wat Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,177	That last part right there dissuades many people from getting the flu shot. People that were on the fence about it, got it, and got the flu (or flu-like symptoms identical to the flu), tend to stop getting the flu shot. It doesn't make convincing people any easier.

12-20-2013, 09:10 PM	#30
Grandmaster_Skweeb Doesn't care anymore Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,429	I've already posted about my allergic reactions to flu shots and all that, so that's a moot point. What I dislike about flu vaccinations specifically is that it gets treated like the end all be all solution. It may help, but like batgirl alluded to: it has a good chance of not working at all because the flu virus has such a fuckin crazy mutation rate. essentially one is getting vaccinations for a strain of influenza that could very well never exist anymore.