d20 (D&D, Pathfinder, etc.): General Discussion, Help, and Fun

[Pip Boy]

The original DM's ruling to encourage boarding-based combat rather than ships firing on each other was that there would be no gunpowder in the world. When one player wanted to play a gunslinger, I spoke with the DM and he's decided that gunpowder exists, but is new and extremely rare and expensive, so only small firearms have been developed so far. Since then that player has changed what they're going to play but we've kept the gunpowder changes.

Our party has grown from two members to four, and this is our composition.

Our Captain, Marcus Gwent, is a Tactician who can grant teamwork feats just like the cavalier ability but gains the ability a few levels later.

Our First Mate, Creed Tomran is a ninja who specifically focuses on infiltration and assassination. He has a Cloak of the Manta ray that he will use to approach enemy ships from far away. Then he will use his Hat of Disguise to pretend to be a crew member and approach the captain. The Captain will be dead before anyone knows whats going on, and then Creed will be back in the water returning to our own ship.

We have another character (has not been named yet) that is an Oracle with the Waves Mystery. Her curse is the Tongues curse, and in times of duress or during combat, she can only speak and understand Aquan. Roleplay-wise, she is very valuable because the DM will be giving her cryptic revelations and clues as to the location of the treasure we're looking for.

Another unnamed character is our Summoner, who is using the Aquatic base form for his Eidolon found in Ultimate Magic. I'm helping him with the evolutions and stuff so that it can be similar to a Kraken. It will eventually, when more points are available, be a huge tentacled monster that grabs enemies and pulls them off their ship. Alternately, it could just grab the enemy's ship with all of its arms and constrict it until it is destroyed.

[Ryong]

Going to get this thread back up for shenanigans.

You know in D&D 4e, these expertises everyone gets? My group's been playing using the Essentials expertises instead of the old ones. They give a special something for each kind of weapon that the older ones didn't, such as a reroll on a 1 for axes or more damage on a charge for spears...

But staves get to ignore opportunity attacks granted from ranged and area attacks and get reach when used as melee weapons. That second part means you can use any staff as a +2 to hit, 1d8 damage, one handed weapon with reach. It's the only one handed weapon with reach as far as I know. You get a defensive staff and you can still use a shield, resulting in a pretty good combo for some classes, even if you lose some damage.

[EVILNess]

I have mentioned a few times that I do homebrew when I get bored and don't have a regular game night to look forward too.

Well, to sate my addiction I have been slowly making a Final Fantasy Tactics D20-ish game. It's not quite d20, but I am most familiar with D20 so it has many similarities.

I was wondering if you guys might help me with some opinions the initial balance numbers for Black Mage. I am currently struggling with MP costs. I want someone who sacrifices HP growth to have lots of MP to be able to use the best spells a few times, but at the same time I don't want to make it too high to prevent mage-warrior hybrids. Let me just paste this from my documents.

Black Mage

A warrior who uses Black Magic to channel elemental powers into powerful offensive spells. High magic damage output but physically weak.

--Stat adjustments--
(Not real sure how I am going to handle this...)
--Innate Abilities--
Equip Rod
Equip Dagger

--Black Magic--
Fire JP: 100
Effect - Black magic erupts in a blazing inferno. Level 1 Spell. 1d4/level fire damage (max 5d4).

Fira JP: 500
Effect - Black magic erupts in a blazing inferno. Level 2 Spell. 1d6/level fire damage (max 5d6).

Firaga JP: 800
Effect - Black magic erupts in a blazing inferno. Level 4 Spell. 2d12 + 1d6/level fire damage (max 5d6).

Firaja JP: 1000
Effect - Black magic erupts in a blazing inferno. Level 5 Spell. Deals 2d20 +1d6/level fire damage (max 10d6).

Thunder JP: 100
Effect - Black magic strikes down in a flash of lightning. Level 1 Spell. 1d4/level lightning damage (max 5d4).

Thundara
Effect - Black magic strikes down in a flash of lightning. Level 2 Spell. 1d6/level lightning damage (max 5d6).

Thundaga
Effect - Black magic strikes down in a flash of lightning. Level 4 Spell. 2d12 + 1d6/level lightning damage (max 5d6).

Thundaja
Effect - Black magic strikes down in a flash of lightning. Level 5 Spell. Deals 2d20 +1d6/level lightning damage (max 10d6).

Blizzard
Effect - Black magic releases falling ice shards. Level 1 Spell. 1d4/level ice damage (max 5d4).

Blizzara
Effect - Black magic releases falling ice shards. Level 2 Spell. 1d6/level ice damage (max 5d6).

Blizzaga
Effect - Black magic releases falling ice shards. Level 4 Spell. 2d12 + 1d6/level ice damage (max 5d6).

Blizzaja
Effect - Black magic releases falling ice shards. Level 5 Spell. Deals 2d20 +1d6/level Ice damage (max 10d6).

Poison
Effect - Black magic creates poison inside one's body, gradually lowering HP as the body is consumed from inside. Level 1 Spell. Add Poison at (1d6xInt)%. Vitality Check nullifies Poison status.

Bio
Effect - Black magic creates corrosive poison inside one's body, dealing non-elemental damage and then gradually lowering HP as the body is consumed from inside. Level 3 Spell. 1d6/level damage (max 5d6). Add Poison at (1d6xInt)%. Vitality Check nullifies Poison status.

Frog
Effect - Black magic turns target into a frog. Level 3 Spell. Add Frog at (1d6xInt)%. Vitality Check nullifies Frog status.

Death
Effect - Black magic slays target instantly by removing its soul. Level 4 Spell. Add Death at (1d4xInt)%. Vitality and Spirit check nullifies Death. Both checks must be failed for the spell to work.

Flare
Effect - Black magic burns an entire area by converting ultra-energy to heat. Level 5 Spell

--Reaction--
Counter Magic
Effect - When attacked by magic, counter with same spell. Must have adequate MP to use the spell.

--Support--
Magic Attack Up
Effect - Can cause great damage with magic attack. Added 1d4 to magic damage rolls.

--Move--
N/A

The spell levels are for the Red Mage job, so other than that it's really not important. Any thoughts?

Heh, I am actually getting pretty far with this. I might have to start up a game of my own using this...

[Meister]

Originally Posted by Ryong

But staves get to ignore opportunity attacks granted from ranged and area attacks and get reach when used as melee weapons. That second part means you can use any staff as a +2 to hit, 1d8 damage, one handed weapon with reach. It's the only one handed weapon with reach as far as I know. You get a defensive staff and you can still use a shield, resulting in a pretty good combo for some classes, even if you lose some damage.

Not sure where you're getting the one-handed part from, a staff used as a weapon is treated like a quarterstaff and those are two-handed. Unless I'm missing something. Also, remember you ignore opportunity attacks only for implement attacks, which is still really good.

e: if you're not proficient with the staff as an implement and use one as a weapon, you only get the enhancement bonus and critical hit effect anyway, no properties or powers. That limits the number of classes this combo would be useful for. Without additional feats it's pretty much just the Assassin and the Sentinel. e2: nope, even the Assassin would need to pick up the weapon proficiency.

Also, whips are one-handed and have reach.

[Ryong]

Using character builder, I can use a staff as an one-handed weapon for my Warden. Again, we use essentials feats without essentials characters since we never checked if essentials feats are only for essentials characters so, yeah. It's very wonky. I can use it for any Warden power and I still gain the staff's property.

Edit: Upon reading the description of staves on PH1, yeah, it works like that, so now I'm wondering why is character builder being wonky.

[Meister]

I guess it's such an edge case that they didn't account for it. Most likely the reason you can equip a staff one-handed is because that's a valid way to wield it, but only if you wield it as an implement. Looks like the CB doesn't have a way to check for that.

[tacticslion]

EVILNESS:
I'm writing you tons of stuff back. Cool game, 'bro.

Originally Posted by EVILNess

STUFF, AND IF I MAY SAY SO, IT'S ABOUT TIME THAT HE POSTED STUFF HERE INSTEAD OF LINKS THAT I COULD NEVER DOWNLOAD, NOT THAT I'M BITTER

Actually that looks pretty cool. As in, I've always wanted to do this, but never did, 'cause I'm lazy. Dude, if you're ever in central Florida, let me know! Some questions and suggestions:
FIRST: on the nature of JP - lolwut. what I mean by that is "what is JP in your system and how to people get them some?"

SECOND: it looks pretty good. You need listed ranges, though. I'd recommend making it a burst effect, much like it was in FFT - kind of like flinging minor fireballs with a shorter range, save without needing line-of-sight (or even much of a line-of-effect, for that matter). I'd say 15-foot diameter would do it (the five-foot-square it targets, and each that are adjacent to it) in order to flesh out the area of effect. I'd also set the range to "close" (25 ft +5 ft/2 levels) in order to imitate the more intimate effect of FFT battles (but that's just me).

THIRD: as to STAT adjustments, that's fairly easy, I think: look at the Chameleon, from Races of Destiny. Depending on your daily focus, you gain a bonus to one of: caster level, base attack, [(a) specific saving throw(s)], or hit points. You also gain specific class features, again, based on your focus. I'd suggest this as the perfect template for creating alternating class-focused characters. The short version is that the chameleon basically gets the worst of everything ever (BAB, saves, etc) except their hit points [d8] and their skills [4+].

I'd suggest actually giving the characters the worst base of everything ever (BAB, saves, etc and worst hit points [d4] and skills [2+]), and then making their class "focus" a kind of template that applies to them: they gain additional skills equal to those the class normally provides chosen from the class list with a number of ranks equal to their class level (however you track that, if you do, use their character level/HD, if you don't track class levels separately).

Give them an increase in hit points based off their new class:
* (d6 [+2/level], d8 [+4/level], d10 [+6/level], d12 [+8/level] and skills [2 if normally 2+, 4 if normally 4+, etc]).

If you feel like being harder:
* (d6 [+1/level], d8 [+2/level], d10 [+3/level], d12 [+4/level] and skills [0 if normally 2+, 2 if normally 4+, etc])

You could also split the difference between them, with more hit points and less skills or (more to my liking) less hit points and more skills!

Alternatively, depending on how you "lock" the class mechanic, you could give static bonuses, based on when they level up. For example: "you just killed the BBEG, you're a elemental evoker wizard black mage now, so you gain d4, 2+, worst BAB, best will, etc!" That would be more like FFT, but would also be a harsh thing in a d20 system where they'd basically be multiclassing every level, which would not be fun, I think. That said, you have very hard limits on the damage of your spells, as listed, so it could work out okay.

One caveat, though, I'd ensure a minimum of 4 hp, regardless of what you did (instead of rolling a d4, just presuming it's a 4). That's just me, though.

As far as MP, and mage/warrior hybrids...

You can crib the spell-points system from Unearthed Arcana (use a bard, I'd say), or the power points (like a psychic warrior) from Expanded Psionics. This works great with refocusing, thus changing your "class" every day. You don't need to worry about hybrids that way - a hybrid simply uses half the benefit of the "primary" class template they have access to. Summoners would likely need a LOT of work, however (and probably use sorcerer/psion/wilder growths for SP/PP/MP/whatever you call it*).

With movement abilities, I'd say look at the movement ranges in FFT and compare them to the d20 system. You could presume the squares are five-foot increments... it's what I did with the areas, above... and use that to measure the effect of movement-modifiers, but it can yield strange results. For example, using that one-to-one conversion ninja's would only have a 20 foot movement range, but would have a +20 feet to their jumping! Most classes would have a 15-foot movement range. This could work, but it's not really standard d20 presumptions, so I don't know exactly how to set that up.

*I don't mean to imply that sorcerers have the same SP growth as psions and wilder - they don't, as I recall. I'm just saying that use this set as opposed to wizards, bards, or psychic warriors.

Replying to the Magic Attack Up: I'd suggest adding that 1d4 to damage and caster level. That would seriously make it a more valuable thing than a mere +1d4 damage. That said, it really, really depends on how you handle HP.

Anyhoo, that's a LOT of feedback, but I hope you enjoy!

PIP:
I'm curious if this game has gotten off the ground. Also, re: gunpowder - one way of making it rare is making it dangerous (just not to PCs) - "liable to blow at any time (because it's reactive to magic)" and requiring fiddling with "deadly alchemical concoctions (which turn into 'liable to blow at any time concoctions)" are just the kinds of things to make most people shy away from it, but make it a great boon to players.

MEISTER:
In 4E, did they ever release any non-monster version of a charm, compulsion, domination, or the like that didn't cause hit point damage and was, in fact, instead an actual charm, compulsion, or domination? I enjoy 4E's streamlining sometimes, but it annoys me at others, and I haven't kept up with the latest supplements.

[Meister]

I'm gonna check that tomorrow, I'm sure there's stuff. Just as a pre-empt though the stuff I find isn't necessarily going to be described explicitly as charm or domination, owing to the usage of keywords in 4E.

[Ryong]

I believe the vampire class - yes, class - from the heroes of the fallen lands book have just that.

[DarkDrgon]

My gaming group is switching to Pathfinder, and I've had an idea I'd like to share with you all. How would you feel about a tabletop D&D lets play? where I'll record every session, youtubes it, and then get feedback about what horrors to put my party through.