Brians Superman Post - Page 5

krogothwolf · 07-29-2010, 03:00 PM

That would be bad for the villains, they have no incentive to be cured right now. They have a pretty cushy life. Kill and rob people, get thrown in a weak jail for a few weeks, escape and do the same thing over again. It's an awesome life.

Amake · 07-29-2010, 03:49 PM

I could make some sort of argument about how cool Superman can be, here. But honestly everything I could possibly say about the character, All-Star Superman already said better.

All-Star is probably as good as Superman is ever going to get. And that trailer is a grave disappointment in comparison.

Anyway All-Star Superman is pretty sweet and I think everyone should read it. Especially anyone feeling that Superman is lacking as a character.

Heck, I used to think most of the ongoing comics were done to death about thirty years ago. But now it's hard to argue that since All-Star Superman makes every last Superman comic published before it into build-up, and it's the payoff. And it's worth every one of those, at a guess, 15-20 000 pages to have reached this pinnacle.

A bit tangential perhaps but it's hard to pass up a chance to gush about All-Star Superman.

BitVyper · 07-29-2010, 06:28 PM

Superman is not anyone's paid police force or military, last I checked. He's a free agent and has no particular moral or legal responsibility to kill The Joker for you.

Odjn · 07-29-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BitVyper

Superman is not anyone's paid police force or military, last I checked. He's a free agent and has no particular moral or legal responsibility to kill The Joker for you.

Last time I checked he was explicitly working for/obeying the law. And that's ok if he isn't, we'll shoot the Joker on our own and he can bugger off to space.

Loyal · 07-29-2010, 08:21 PM

At that point you're railing less against Superman and the other Capes and more against the law enforcement system in the comics for failing to adequately dispose of him. Which is a whole other can of worms.

w0rf · 07-29-2010, 10:33 PM

The problem with Superman... is that he's "F'ing Superman" (tm).

What you have in Superman is both the literal and the figurative ubermensch. He is stronger than all the strong heroes, faster than all the fast heroes, smarter than all the smart heroes, "good-er" than all the good heroes. He's nearly indestructible, unflinchingly moral, and revered without exception by all of his superpowered peers. (except Batman and you could argue Guy Gardner).

So what do you do with a guy like that? The idea of an invincible good guy stopping bank robbers is noble, but that's not even a light workout for someone like that. So you cook up some superpowered bad guys. And of course he's always more powerful than all of them also, or when they have a physical edge he thwarts them tactically. He's literally unstoppable.

So again, what do you do with a guy like that? You contrive limitations for him. Kryptonite and magic are all right but how many time is one guy going to fall for the same gag? (according to the trailer, I guess one too many) Same with human shields. So you come up with other reasons: worn down from constant fighting, memory loss, suddenly less strong than you thought, self-imposed exile... You're stuck trying to imagine reasons he is NOT invincible because you have to find a way to make the story interesting when technically he should defeat every nemesis in like five seconds. But then the instant you make him something less than he is, you're being unfaithful to his character.

The Superman in the trailer was interesting, but to make him so, you had to make him not care about the lives of billions of innocents and all of his comrades (except Wonder Woman... makes you curious). You had to make him absent from the battle until the right dramatic moment to step in and be all Supermanny. You had to make him mortally violent against Black Adam and Luthor ("you don't deserve to live"? Seriously?). Essentially, you had to make him not-Superman. And that is the problem with being Superman.

On a different note, is it just me, or did everyone including Superman, Batman, Luthor, Adam... basically, every male character except Joker, sound like Kratos? Did they all take their gravelly baritone pills with their breakfast? I kept expecting to hear "And so, Kal-El cast himself from the highest mountain in all of Krypton..."

Kurosen · 07-29-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0rf

So what do you do with a guy like that?

You do All-Star Superman, or Superman For All Seasons, or Superman: Red Son.

Odjn · 07-30-2010, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurosen

You do All-Star Superman, or Superman For All Seasons, or Superman: Red Son.

See the reason these are all great is because they're one shots and thus they don't get sloppy. I wish all Superman everywhere was one shots.

POS Industries · 07-29-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0rf

On a different note, is it just me, or did everyone including Superman, Batman, Luthor, Adam... basically, every male character except Joker, sound like Kratos? Did they all take their gravelly baritone pills with their breakfast? I kept expecting to hear "And so, Kal-El cast himself from the highest mountain in all of Krypton..."

Probably for the same reason they made every male character including Joker look like Kratos.

RobinStarwing · 07-29-2010, 11:54 PM

As I said, too dark...too gritty...to gloomy...to God Of Warsee...

I will stick to Dante from DMC. He at least doesn't have these issues for me.

07-29-2010, 03:00 PM	#1
krogothwolf Fetched the Candy Cane! Join Date: May 2009 Location: Calgary Posts: 4,278	That would be bad for the villains, they have no incentive to be cured right now. They have a pretty cushy life. Kill and rob people, get thrown in a weak jail for a few weeks, escape and do the same thing over again. It's an awesome life. __________________ Knowledge is Power, Power is Knowledge ╔╦╦══╦══╦═╦══╦══╦╗╔╦╦╦╦══╦╗╔═╗ ║═╣╠═║╔╗║╔╣╔╗╠╗╔╣╚╝║║║║╔╗║║║═╣ ║║║╔╗╣╚╝║║║╚╝║║║║╔╗║║║║╚╝║╚╣╔╝ ╚╩╩╝╚╩══╩═╩══╝╚╝╚╝╚╩══╩══╩═╩╝

07-29-2010, 03:49 PM	#2
Amake Keeper of the new Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: A place without judgment Posts: 4,506	I could make some sort of argument about how cool Superman can be, here. But honestly everything I could possibly say about the character, All-Star Superman already said better. All-Star is probably as good as Superman is ever going to get. And that trailer is a grave disappointment in comparison. Anyway All-Star Superman is pretty sweet and I think everyone should read it. Especially anyone feeling that Superman is lacking as a character. Heck, I used to think most of the ongoing comics were done to death about thirty years ago. But now it's hard to argue that since All-Star Superman makes every last Superman comic published before it into build-up, and it's the payoff. And it's worth every one of those, at a guess, 15-20 000 pages to have reached this pinnacle. A bit tangential perhaps but it's hard to pass up a chance to gush about All-Star Superman. __________________ Hope insistent, trust implicit, love inherent, life immersed Last edited by Amake; 07-30-2010 at 02:17 AM.

07-29-2010, 06:28 PM	#3
BitVyper History's Strongest Dilettante Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Arcadia Posts: 6,662	Superman is not anyone's paid police force or military, last I checked. He's a free agent and has no particular moral or legal responsibility to kill The Joker for you. __________________ "There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea is asleep, and the rivers dream. People made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace; we've got work to do!" Awesome art be here.

07-29-2010, 11:54 PM	#10
RobinStarwing C.M.B.A.S.O.B Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Everywhere until you look at me. Posts: 737	As I said, too dark...too gritty...to gloomy...to God Of Warsee... I will stick to Dante from DMC. He at least doesn't have these issues for me. __________________ *NPF's resident Crazy Magnificent Bastard Ass Son Of A Bitch (CMBASOB)* Accept No Substitutes Also known as "The Least Interesting Man in The World" according to multiple surveys Last edited by RobinStarwing; 07-30-2010 at 12:01 AM.

07-29-2010, 10:33 PM	#6
w0rf It is Worf madam not Woof Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 86	The problem with Superman... is that he's "F'ing Superman" (tm). What you have in Superman is both the literal and the figurative ubermensch. He is stronger than all the strong heroes, faster than all the fast heroes, smarter than all the smart heroes, "good-er" than all the good heroes. He's nearly indestructible, unflinchingly moral, and revered without exception by all of his superpowered peers. (except Batman and you could argue Guy Gardner). So what do you do with a guy like that? The idea of an invincible good guy stopping bank robbers is noble, but that's not even a light workout for someone like that. So you cook up some superpowered bad guys. And of course he's always more powerful than all of them also, or when they have a physical edge he thwarts them tactically. He's literally unstoppable. So again, what do you do with a guy like that? You contrive limitations for him. Kryptonite and magic are all right but how many time is one guy going to fall for the same gag? (according to the trailer, I guess one too many) Same with human shields. So you come up with other reasons: worn down from constant fighting, memory loss, suddenly less strong than you thought, self-imposed exile... You're stuck trying to imagine reasons he is NOT invincible because you have to find a way to make the story interesting when technically he should defeat every nemesis in like five seconds. But then the instant you make him something less than he is, you're being unfaithful to his character. The Superman in the trailer was interesting, but to make him so, you had to make him not care about the lives of billions of innocents and all of his comrades (except Wonder Woman... makes you curious). You had to make him absent from the battle until the right dramatic moment to step in and be all Supermanny. You had to make him mortally violent against Black Adam and Luthor ("you don't deserve to live"? Seriously?). Essentially, you had to make him not-Superman. And that is the problem with being Superman. On a different note, is it just me, or did everyone including Superman, Batman, Luthor, Adam... basically, every male character except Joker, sound like Kratos? Did they all take their gravelly baritone pills with their breakfast? I kept expecting to hear "And so, Kal-El cast himself from the highest mountain in all of Krypton..."