NPF sucks!

[pochercoaster]

Oh, it's that time of year again, where there's a thread about how NPF has changed for the worse and it's time to change it back so everyone talks about it and then nothing happens.

Originally Posted by Ryong

And the thing is, chances are that if I try to convince someone about something I'm right, they won't agree with me simply because they're better than me because they have more rep gems or more posts or are just inherently better than me and above my flawed point of view.

See, I never get this from NPF. Maybe my perspective is just skewed, but I don't really see people saying "I'm better and/or more right than you because I'm more popular." I do see people saying "I'm more right than you, because you believe Y and I believe X and yarga blarga bloopity." No one is obligated to change their opinion even if they're "wrong." They are only obligated to be courteous in discussion, and the mods decide what "courteous" means.

It amuses me that people complained about the old discussion forums for being too flamey (also awesome and fun!) so the mods changed the rules around a bit to make them more friendly and now people are complaining about the NEW discussion forums. Discussion will always involve some level of discomfort because it brings up topics people feel strongly about. You either just roll with the discomfort or avoid discussion. Or just lurk in discussion and eat popcorn on the sidelines.

Personally I want the discussion forums to become a colosseum where gladiators battle each other for the right to be "correct."

Polemical people will always be more popular. If you want to be popular you should start talking about how much you enjoy drowning babies and start threads defending the morality of it. If not, then just roll with being slightly less noticeable? I can't help but feel that this problem is artificial and inflated.

As for leaving the forums: I've vanished from NPF a few times due to being busy or just simply not enjoying it, but never made an announcement. I figure I might want to come back after a break, and if I don't return and someone is wondering about me they can always bother me on MSN.

Sometimes it feels like NPF just wants to create its own drama because otherwise it would be too good of a forum and violate all the rules of the internet.

Edit1: Also I was ninja'd by a bazillion people.

Edit2: Also this post was not solely directed at Ryong, obviously. I was gonna go back and pull out more quotes but LAZY.

Edit3: Also I guess we could just blame fifthfiend or shiney, those dastardly bastards! Y'know instead of admitting that the community of NPF is made up of more than five people and everyone contributes to it.

Edit4: Also can't help but feel this thread is a covert way of people saying "I don't like Liz and/or <insert other NPFer" here and not wanting to deal with the fact that some people are more opinionated than others. Which is really disappointing, can we all just play nicely?

[shiney]

I think we have another new forum description.

[Osterbaum]

Man, fuck Fifth and shiney and Liz and who else.

e: you guys should stop being so popular

[Loyal]

Also, I guess that maybe I could take some responsibility for the atmosphere that fosters here? But maybe also it's because some people insist on staking out positions in arguments and discussions that are thoroughly and soundly defeated through the power of facts and evidence, and then stubbornly refuse in any regard to admit perhaps that their positions are flawed or based on misinformation. And then continue on to rail against "the establishment" which drowns out dissenting opinions, instead of acknowledging that this very same establishment provides links, facts and info that run concurrent with the bias, such as it is, and disenfranchise not the opposition but the hollow and idiotic talking points that the opposition tends to promote as equally valid viewpoints.

Just saying.

It could simply be butthurt.

Maybe not anyone in this thread, or maybe so. But I do get sort of tired for people wandering into certain areas of the forum, getting their asses kicked in a debate, and then crying that everyone hates them because they're jerks and I quit.

While this is true, another part of the problem, as I see it, is that when one side is right and the other side is wrong, those in the right tend to take it as a free pass to mock and/or belittle those in the wrong.

Or to be precise there's a certain number of folks who are fairly consistently in the right but tend to present their arguments in the most ingratiating/adversarial/ohgodwhatthehelliswrongwithyou manner possible. Sometimes it seems less like there's a point being argued and more like the discussion is just a thinly-veiled excuse to get our jollies at someone else's expense. Which as far as I can tell is, at least implicitly, supported by the staff at large.

I know for a fact some people avoid getting into discussions entirely because they don't feel like putting up with the usual, inevitable rebuttal. Which, I suppose, is something I have a problem with.

[pochercoaster]

You know, I don't want to ignore the other side of the problem, either, and my post probably came off as pretty one-sided. But I don't actually read the discussion forums much anymore, (purely out of laziness, not a feeling of being driven away from them) so like maybe there IS some shit that needs to be fixed but I couldn't say. Even so, "fixing" the discussion forums doesn't seem to be the original intent of this thread. I've just accepted that discussion will always be somewhat drama-y and then I remember it's just the internet and walk away.

Originally Posted by shiney

I think we have another new forum description.

FINALLY some recognition!!!1!!!11!

[Seil]

tl;dr

[shiney]

Yeah I'll give you that. People should be less condescending in their arguments. But then we get into the debate of "what amount of snark is acceptable and what is against the rules" and I don't want my mods to have to get themselves involved in being the "acceptable tone" police as their job would never, ever end. It would be nice if some people could self-regulate. Sometimes myself included. But it would also be nice if some other people would think for themselves and do some independent analysis, check a wide variety of sources and then check who funds those sources...for an argument on NPF this isn't really feasible, this is hardly a scholarly forum, but if you are going to get into a debate or a big discussion about [x] and someone is going to beat you over the head with info then maybe you should check the veracity of your own statements??

tl;dr some haters just gonna hate, be it the arguers or the quit4lyfers. The internet pulls no punches though...

[shiney]

Oh and I have no intention of fixing discussion again. It's a beast of its own and I shouldn't be required to constantly protect people who can't handle it after the numerous adjustments we've tried to make. The best I can say is "thin skin? stay out"

[Fifthfiend]

Just gonna point a thing out rill quickstyle

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Man, why is it that everyone responds to my posts with the old "Wall of Text" cracks?

This is the part that says what you are actually saying.

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

...I don't quite get it. I mean granted I have a personal advantage in that I wrote the text so it's easier for me to skim through it, but I reread everything I just wrote in less than twenty seconds, I seriously can't imagine anyone losing massive amounts of time reading even the longest of my rants.

I'm not saying that you don't have the right to skip it, but couldn't you skip reading the Walls of Snake Text without trying to make Snake feel like an idiotic ass by deliberately mentioning that you're avoiding the text because it's such a huge burden on you or something? You can avoid the Walls without, you know, mocking them or anything.

ITT: Oversensitive Snake is Oversensitive (but should at least accrue a few brownie points for becoming more self-aware of his irrational over-sensitivity)

This is the part that makes it a snakepost.

[pochercoaster]

Man discussion was fun when Lockeownzj00 posted.

Edit: Also Funka.

Edit2: Why can't we retroactively add post tags? I forgot to add the lolitrollu.

Tahredit: Just for you.